Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Noomad » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:59 pm

GunnGunn wrote:He isn't being sarcastic.

Lets face facts PG, the only reason you like Jack is A) Because he is English and B) Because he is dirty.



Sorry GunnGunn didn't get this one ?? Could you be more precise ?

Im neither english or french and for me Jack is the a mix between Nasri and Fab.

In a few years I see him become a Gerrad. A player that a team relay on.
He has heart and mentality.

Didn't see the dirty thing you are talking about...

God and he's only 19 !!?

I hope that nothing bad will stop his carreer injuries or anything else.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby ayN » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:09 pm

Noomad wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:He isn't being sarcastic.

Lets face facts PG, the only reason you like Jack is A) Because he is English and B) Because he is dirty.



Sorry GunnGunn didn't get this one ?? Could you be more precise ?

Im neither english or french and for me Jack is the a mix between Nasri and Fab.

In a few years I see him become a Gerrad. A player that a team relay on.
He has heart and mentality.

Didn't see the dirty thing you are talking about...

God and he's only 19 !!?

I hope that nothing bad will stop his carreer injuries or anything else.



PG loves players who injure others. Bloody sadist :snooty: .
Wilshere does many tackles that lead to fouls, others cringing basically, and PG is biased towards him because of that! He is a dirty tackler and because of that reminds me of Scholes, wouldn't mind if Wilshere turned into someone like Scholes, would be great for us.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:15 pm

ProudGooner wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:He isn't being sarcastic.

Lets face facts PG, the only reason you like Jack is A) Because he is English and B) Because he is dirty.

No doubt he is a fantasticly talented young player and has easily been the best English mid this season but its precisely because he is English that his failings have been glossed over by both fans and especially by the media.

If he was French he would have been called out a few times over some of his performances and the fact he goes MIA.

He is still too raw, when he is flying high he is very VERY good, when he can't get into the game he goes missing, and he gets very rash with his tackles.

I still think fit and on form, Diaby, Song and Fabregas is our best midfield. Trouble is however, Diaby is always injured and its for exactly that reason that Wilshere has played as much as he has done.

Wilshere is a good passer of the ball, he likes to get stuck in, and he is up for a dog fight, Diaby is more skillful, a better dribbler and much more powerful in his runs, not to mention a much bigger goal threat.

If it were upto me however, and Ramsey hadn't had his horrific injury, he would be playing in that CM spot...

He is better than Wilshere, Diaby and Denilson IMO...

I disagree. You are talking as if Diaby has been amazing. Diaby has had so many years to prove his worth and he is still inconsistent. His performances are terrible one day and then amazing the next.

Wilshere has been good. He has creativity, he can pick out a pass that others (apart from Cesc or Arshavin) cant see. His contribution has been immense. I have also highlighted some mistakes he has made and I agree because he is english there is a bias towards him which means he gets away with a lot more than he should.

But he has been pretty good and his contribution has been greater than Diaby has ever made. We have too many fancy players as it is what we need is some grit. Wilshere gives us some grit and bite in midfield.


Diaby alongside Fab and Song is amazing, when he doesn't play with those two, he is often poor/inconsistent.

I don't think his contribution in 5 months has been greater than Diaby has ever made, thats just pure tripe IMO.

He has been good, very good in some games, but he has gone missing a lot this season, due in no small part to his lack of experience, and that is never picked up on.

Just because he is the next young English prodigy, he has been mega hyped, and just goes to show that there is an air of xenophobia amongst everyone, because if Diaby or Denilson had come off the back of some of the games when Wilshere had gone missing they would have been absolutely, and ridiculously slated and the fire burning against both of them would have just been fuelled more, such is the extent that those two are hated by some of our fans.

Yet Wilshere is often praised when he is poor, like he can do no wrong...That annoys me...

Anyway, like i said, in an ideal World, AW would have spent and bought a proper box to boxer, or Ramsey wouldn't have broken his leg.

If Ramsey hadn't broken his leg, Wilshere wouldn't have gotten a look in, no doubt in my mind who is the better out of those two.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:17 pm

Noomad wrote:
GunnGunn wrote:He isn't being sarcastic.

Lets face facts PG, the only reason you like Jack is A) Because he is English and B) Because he is dirty.



Sorry GunnGunn didn't get this one ?? Could you be more precise ?

Im neither english or french and for me Jack is the a mix between Nasri and Fab.

In a few years I see him become a Gerrad. A player that a team relay on.
He has heart and mentality.

Didn't see the dirty thing you are talking about...

God and he's only 19 !!?

I hope that nothing bad will stop his carreer injuries or anything else.


PG does not appreciate Wilshere for his almost apparent foreign flair and technique, he appreciates the dirty bastard side of him.

And Wilshere is not a mix between Nasri and Fab, and he isn't anything like Gerrard either IMO.

Lansbury is the most Gerrard like player we have.
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Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:30 pm

We've been needing a dirty b@st@rd in midfield since Vieira left!

To say Wilshere is overrated and only talked about because he is English is a load of BS if you ask me.

Flamini, Song, Denilson and others had opportunities when they were a similar age and couldn't hack the physical side of the premiership midfield. Jack is a smaller frame than all of those but has more than coped.

Not only is he better at defending and doing the boring stuff than D&D (which is what he was doing against Brum when everyone said he had a poor game), but he is excellent going forward and has the talent replace Cesc as our attacking central midfielder one day.

It isn't just because he's English or dirty, it's because he's brilliant! I took my brother ('pool fan) to the emirates cup in 08 and jack came on as sub. My brother at the time was in awe of what he did in the short time he was on and has raved about him ever since. The dirty bit is a bonus, which I admit makes him my kind of player!
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Noomad » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:38 pm

GunnGunn wrote:
PG does not appreciate Wilshere for his almost apparent foreign flair and technique, he appreciates the dirty bastard side of him.

And Wilshere is not a mix between Nasri and Fab, and he isn't anything like Gerrard either IMO.

Lansbury is the most Gerrard like player we have.


Sorry maybe I have problems to explain myself :

Mix between Nasri-Fab : its about his technique and his influence in attacking sequence for Nasri and the defending part for Fab. of course he still far from them but as I have sayed he's only 19.

Comparison with Gerrad its not about the abilities but the symbol of club he can become. Like a real leader and a player who everyone will turn to when everyhting seems over.

I've never seen him playing dirty if dirty is what ayN described. He is maybe a little hard but never did a thing to hurt a player.

or maybe you did understand and I'm wrong :redface:
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Est83 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:47 pm

I wouldn't say that Diaby is more creative than Jack, Jack has better vision intricate passing ability, he belongs in the hole behind the strikers. Let's not forget that Jack - even though he loves playing as a CM - is much more suited to being the playmaker. Diaby has better ball retention and amazing dribbling skills (when on form), but more importantly to his role as one of the deeper two midfielders behind Cesc, Diaby covers ground like it's nothing! If he developed his defensive game he would be the perfect box-to-box man. Either way he's much more suited to playing a CM role than Jack (even though Diaby is still yet to realise he's a 6ft+ beast that could flatten most people!)

A fit and healthy, on-form Diaby would get into the team ahead of Jack. I love Jack more than anyone, and I'm excited by the fact that an Englishman with this kind of technical ability ACTUALLY EXISTS. But in the three-man midfield, with Cesc infront of two deeper midfielders, the two would have to be Song and Diaby (if Ramsey's not available).

Wilshere is plying his trade in the deeper position at the moment, and it will benefit him as it benefited Cesc playing the CM role, but eventually Jack will play where he plays best naturally, and that's in the hole behind the striker/s.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Est83 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:52 pm

Noomad, I understand your points completely. The only thing you needed to be clear about really was your comparison with Gerrard. You went from comparing ability/style to comparing personality/stature. Style-wise, Lansbury and Ramsey are the closest we have to a Garrard.

And Jay... Bacary f**king rules man! Best right back in the world. Been saying it forever :biggrin:
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:03 pm

I don't think there is a better RB than Sagna and there hasn't been since he joined Arsenal...

Maicon...1 season wonder
Ramos...LOL
Alves...Practically a RW

He is World Class in every sense of the word.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:12 pm

Plymouth Gooner wrote:We've been needing a dirty b@st@rd in midfield since Vieira left!

To say Wilshere is overrated and only talked about because he is English is a load of BS if you ask me.

Flamini, Song, Denilson and others had opportunities when they were a similar age and couldn't hack the physical side of the premiership midfield. Jack is a smaller frame than all of those but has more than coped.

Not only is he better at defending and doing the boring stuff than D&D (which is what he was doing against Brum when everyone said he had a poor game), but he is excellent going forward and has the talent replace Cesc as our attacking central midfielder one day.

It isn't just because he's English or dirty, it's because he's brilliant! I took my brother ('pool fan) to the emirates cup in 08 and jack came on as sub. My brother at the time was in awe of what he did in the short time he was on and has raved about him ever since. The dirty bit is a bonus, which I admit makes him my kind of player!


You are comparing players who wern't even born in this country and who never grew up with the English game to someone who did, unfair really.

And Flamini and Song were/are more physical than Wilshere.

He is a great player and to coin a very annoying phrase, he has been "Like a new signing" but he has gotten away with some very underpar performances just because he is the next young, up and coming English talent, just like Gibbs does as well.

At the end of the day, if he was French, African or both i don't think there would be anywhere near as much hoohaa as there has been about him...

I do like Wilshere a lot but i hate seeing him getting away with performances that Denilson and Diaby would be hung for (If some fans had their way)

They all play for us and they all deserve equal support, understandable we all favour some players over others for one reason or another but some of it just goes way, way ott.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Est83 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:13 pm

Definitely. I've said it so many times, I can't stand it when you get these full backs on the continent that are devastating going forward, but are severely lacking in defensive ability and awareness. How is Alves even considered a full back!?!

Sagna's got it all!
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:15 pm

He has really improved his crossing this season as well, they are excellent now.
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Noomad » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:23 pm

Est83 wrote:Noomad, I understand your points completely. The only thing you needed to be clear about really was your comparison with Gerrard. You went from comparing ability/style to comparing personality/stature. Style-wise, Lansbury and Ramsey are the closest we have to a Garrard.



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Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:47 pm

GG

Wilshere isn't forgiven the odd average performance because he's English, it's because he's 19 and because he's usually consistent.

Denilson and Diaby are both in their mid 20s so can no longer use inexperience as an excuse. They are also both more inconsistent than Wilshere, they have had more bad games than good ones - which isn't the case for Jack!
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Re: Birmingham Vs Arsenal 01/01/11

Postby GunnGunn » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:02 pm

I don't think they have had more bad games than good, people just remember that bad ones, more than they do the good.

Denilson is 22, hardly mid twenties, and Diaby has been bligted by injuries, including a career threatening one.
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