Seems to be a bit of a diver...

[Inchpräctice]

Most of us didn't know much about Chamakh before he arrived.
We knew he was good in the air and unselfish but we certainly didn't know that he goes down like a sack of spuds at nearly every opportunity!

Saw him go down easily several times in the first few games this season but I gave him the benefit of the doubt assuming that AW would slap that out of him, part of his adaptation etc. etc.

Also some of the pens he's won have been genuine pens, albeit slightly soft ones.
However the pen yesterday was really theatrical. Yes there was contact but it was AFTER he'd already started going down.
What disappoints me is that when he's in the box his first thought is not to try and score, but to try and win a pen.
He could've stayed on his feet yesterday and got a shot away, but he chose to go down very easily instead.

The final result was that we won the game but I didn't feel comfortable about the way we won it at all.
I'm not used to watching our players try and con the ref, that just isn't Arsenal imo.

You see it from time to time but it's a rarity not a regular occurrence.
Anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable about the result...?

[Goose]

Hell no, Birmingham were happy to score a penalty against us 2 years ago when Clichy won the ball

I dont see any Utd fans feeling uncomfortable when Rooney dives to win penalties

Its about time this team had by any means necessary attitude, its about time we use ugly tactics to win matches

If we want to win trophies you are going to have to get your hands dirty sometimes

[Rockin' Robin]

My question is do players have a right to go down theatrically when there is contact and it is a foul to make sure the referee makes the right decision and ensure justice is done?

You could say Cesc did that last season against Barcelona to win the penalty. I'm sure there was contact from Dann on Chamakh, I'm sure it was a foul, but I'm not sure the referee would have given it if he hadn't gone down.

[Rockin' Robin]

Also every other team does it, it is now part of the game, so we might as well accept it and instead of taking the moral high ground do it too. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

[Inchpräctice]

My question is do players have a right to go down theatrically when there is contact and it is a foul to make sure the referee makes the right decision and ensure justice is done?

You could say Cesc did that last season against Barcelona to win the penalty. I'm sure there was contact from Dann on Chamakh, I'm sure it was a foul, but I'm not sure the referee would have given it if he hadn't gone down.

On your first point, yes they do have that right but my point is that Chamakh COULD have stayed on his feet and got a shot away but he chose the diving option instead. Personally I find that disappointing.

As for the Barca pen, that was a stonewaller imo. Puyol wrapped his leg around Cesc's as he was about to strike the ball so no theatrics necessary.

Also every other team does it, it is now part of the game, so we might as well accept it and instead of taking the moral high ground do it too. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

I know it's old-fashioned but I'd rather keep our clean and fair record. Yes it can help you win trophies but personally I wouldn't feel comfortable winning a trophy under those circumstances. I want to be proud of a trophy not embarrassed about the way we won it.

You say "If you can't beat 'em join 'em" but not EVERY team in the Prem has a diver in their squad.
How can we slate players like Dogbra and Conaldo for their diving if we have a player who does almost the same thing?

[Arsenal Tone]

I hate diving, but he's relatively young and hasn't much Premiership experience. I'm hoping that side of his game will improve and he will learn when to stay on his feet and when to go down. Ronaldo was the same when he first started in the Premiership but toned it down a bit after a season or two (I know some people won't agree with that) and I'm confident Chamakh will do the same.

[Forest]

3 points is all that matters, if you play fairly you finish 2nd every time.

[Est83]

I like the fact that we can often take the moral high ground, and I try not to defend our players too much when they do something like this.

I see the point of the theatrics, I had a friend in school who used to go down whenever he felt his shirt pulled... obviously the shirt isn't conected to the legs, but sometimes the only way the ref could see the shirt pulling is if one player was on the ground while the other still had the shirt in his hand, stretched two feet and damn near ripping the shirt, and making the decision beyond obvious! But Inch is right in this case, if you can stay on your feet then stay on your feet.

I don't agree that these things level themselves out though, because it certainly happens against us more times than for us, yet we're always the diving foreigners!!! "same old Arsenal, always cheating" <<< nothing makes my blood boil more than hearing that bullshit chant! But yes, on Chamakh, over the last few games, he goes down far too easily for my liking.

And PG... even a tonned down Ronaldo, after cutting his diving theatrics in half, would still be diving twice as much as any other player.

[Inchpräctice]

And PG... even a toned down Ronaldo, after cutting his diving theatrics in half, would still be diving twice as much as any other player.

Absolutely!

[CynicalGooner]

Agree with Goose. It's nothing to be proud of but if you can't beat them, join em. All our rivals have players like that and Barcelona's entire squad are diving pansies.

To be honest though all the penalties Chamakh has won so far have actually been penalties, he just dives to make sure. I wish he wouldn't really, he will end up with a reputation amongst refs and that will cost us.

[GunnGunn]

He is a diver...

Fact remains though, that in each situation he has been in, he has had a right to...

Yesterday there was a lunge, there was clear contact...it was a penalty.

Nothing like Rooney's tumble when Almunia actually got the ball and Rooney was already on his knees several years before contact.

I like Chamakh a lot, he is a hard worker and a battler, and he knows when to go down in the box, i haven't seen him dive outside the box at all, and to compare him to serial divers who do it for the fun of it, is a f***ing joke.

[Inchpräctice]

Agree with Goose. It's nothing to be proud of but if you can't beat them, join em. All our rivals have players like that and Barcelona's entire squad are diving pansies.

To be honest though all the penalties Chamakh has won so far have actually been penalties, he just dives to make sure. I wish he wouldn't really, he will end up with a reputation amongst refs and that will cost us.

Not sure that all our rivals have a diver. Who do City have? What about Spuds?

As for the pen yesterday, yes it was a pen by the letter of the law but as I said he was definitely looking for it and he COULD have stayed on his feet. I'd rather see a shot on goal than a soft pen myself.

[Leody]

I kind of agree with a bit of what everybody has had to say on the matter so far.

- I don't like that Chamakh seems to be looking for the penalty, and not the goal.
- I think players shouldn't be criticized by being a bit theatrical to make sure the ref sees the contact.
- Everybody does it, so it is hardly unexpected
- Chamakh is on his way to developing a reputation though, and how many times did C. Ronaldo not get a honest penalty because of his...
- Winning because of that penalty doesn't tarnish the result in my eyes

[CynicalGooner]

Agree with Goose. It's nothing to be proud of but if you can't beat them, join em. All our rivals have players like that and Barcelona's entire squad are diving pansies.

To be honest though all the penalties Chamakh has won so far have actually been penalties, he just dives to make sure. I wish he wouldn't really, he will end up with a reputation amongst refs and that will cost us.

Not sure that all our rivals have a diver. Who do City have? What about Spuds?

As for the pen yesterday, yes it was a pen by the letter of the law but as I said he was definitely looking for it and he COULD have stayed on his feet. I'd rather see a shot on goal than a soft pen myself.

Tottenham have vDV, massive diver. City have such a high turnover of players none have emerged yet but there's probably one in there.

If Arshavin had scored then it woulsn't have been a problem, Webb played the advantage

[Fabrestuta]

I really can't see how anyone said it was a penalty, he was on his way down well before there was any contact. So he had already decided to dive whether there was contact or not. Also I agree with Leody, he is with us a wet day and is already getting a reputation, refs are human and in the back of their mind there starts to be that little thought than any time a player goes down its a dive.

We would have gotten a penalty against Chelksi if it wasn't for a flop a few minutes before.