Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby mg86 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:35 pm

Wenger has even admitted we can't cope with the injuries we have on the squad. He can't predict these injuries preseason but the team he had set up for 09/10 was lethal. We've been doing great without prob the most in form dm in the league and one of the leagues top four strikers out for the season. Im not worried, cause I know we will buy in January, though Im not happy about the draw, Wenger will be even more unhappy trust me.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Myrmedus » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:36 pm

If he uses this as a spur (heheh) to buy what we need then great.

If he ignores it and writes it off then I'll be pissed.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby gzagee » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:38 pm

Myrmedus wrote:
niko197 wrote:
simsuk wrote:This match just shows that we need a proven goalscorer up front. Wenger needs to blow the cash on a high calibre player such as Villa or Dzeko. I don't want to rely on Walcott, who should be sold for a packet of crisps.


you haven't watch the game mate, if you had you would know that the midfield was disgrace today, we hardly even came in position to score.

we have to be honest, without song and fabregas, with disappointing ramsey, denilson and nasri we can't beat anyone. everton was better team and we're lucky with the one point.


Of course but this is the point. All teams have areas of their team which play badly on occasion, it's why you need to have strength all over the field to compensate.

When your attack isn't playing well you need a good defence.

When your defence is having an off day you need a good attack.

If your midfield isn't playing well you need a good attack and defence to 'steal' a game for you.

In the rarest of occasions you have more than one component of the team playing badly and these are the games you usually lose, but you shouldn't lose games (apart from against rivals) on the basis of one component playing badly. If you do then you lack personnel. We need a striker to give us an extra dimension to compensate for the odd games where our midfielders don't play like kings.

Just take a look across at Chelsea. There have been so many games where their midfield played badly, sometimes their defence aswell, but because Drogba (and even Anelka) are so good they dragged the team through the dirt and stole the game. If we had that kind of offensive power (which we do when RvP is around to be fair) we would've won this game today even if we did play b adly.


Pensioners recent EPL results since beating us 3-0:

Citeh (a) lost 2-1
Everton (h) 3-3
Pompey (h) 2-1 won just...
Spammers (a) 1-1
Brum (a) 0-0
Fulham (h) won 2-1 just...

So in conclusion: yes we played poorly but, we dug out a favourable result. Just like Pensioners, but when they do it you begrudglingly admire them....
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Myrmedus » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:40 pm

If you consider it a favourable result, which is where your argument comes into semantics. I don't view a home draw vs. Everton as a favourable result, and I certainly don't when pulling it back to 1-1 for the 2nd half, heh.

Also, I'm not talking purely after our loss to them. Long before we played them they had bad games where they pulled off victories...heck they weren't exactly on fire when they actually played us. Their midfield was completely overrun but they fell back on the strength of their defence and attack to win.

I also don't want to judge purely by Chelsea and Man Utd's standards - we want to beat them to the title, not equal them, so we should shoot for better not equality. We're a better football team than both, which is the hardest ingredient to improve, so all we need is to 'plug-in' a couple of extra strings to the bow from individual player capabilities. Chelsea and Man Utd have been dragged along by individuals, not by team performances, so if Arsenal had as many of those individual capabilities in addition to our performance as a team we'd crush them; and I'm not even talking about individuals like Fabregas who can turn a game on its head by himself, those kinds of players aren't someone you can just go and rent from a video story. I'm purely talking about players who have particular strengths to their game that would add to our team.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby gzagee » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:45 pm

Myrmedus wrote:If you consider it a favourable result, which is where your arguments comes into semantics.

Also, I'm not talking purely after our loss to them. Long before we played them they had bad games where they pulled off victories...heck they weren't exactly on fire when they actually played us.


I do consider it a favourable result seeing as we would've lost a game like that playing the ways we did last season.
That point might be crucial come the final standings.

Yes, they were pulling great reults out the fire earlier in the season. That result away to Wigan is one that comes to mind...

And they were on a run of 7 wins in 8 when they played us. ;)
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby niko197 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:45 pm

Myrmedus wrote:
niko197 wrote:
simsuk wrote:This match just shows that we need a proven goalscorer up front. Wenger needs to blow the cash on a high calibre player such as Villa or Dzeko. I don't want to rely on Walcott, who should be sold for a packet of crisps.


you haven't watch the game mate, if you had you would know that the midfield was disgrace today, we hardly even came in position to score.

we have to be honest, without song and fabregas, with disappointing ramsey, denilson and nasri we can't beat anyone. everton was better team and we're lucky with the one point.


Of course but this is the point. All teams have areas of their team which play badly on occasion, it's why you need to have strength all over the field to compensate.

When your attack isn't playing well you need a good defence.

When your defence is having an off day you need a good attack.

If your midfield isn't playing well you need a good attack and defence to 'steal' a game for you.

In the rarest of occasions you have more than one component of the team playing badly and these are the games you usually lose, but you shouldn't lose games (apart from against rivals) on the basis of one component playing badly. If you do then you lack personnel. We need a striker to give us an extra dimension to compensate for the odd games where our midfielders don't play like kings.

Just take a look across at Chelsea. There have been so many games where their midfield played badly, sometimes their defence aswell, but because Drogba (and even Anelka) are so good they dragged the team through the dirt and stole the game. If we had that kind of offensive power (which we do when RvP is around to be fair) we would've won this game today even if we did play b adly.


sorry mate, but today we didn't have "one component of the team playing badly", almunia, whole defence, whole midfield except diaby were disgrace!! eddie and arshavin had to make chances for them, first goal was created by arshavin and eduardo, if you haven't seen they were all over the pitch, how many times i saw eduardo on our corner line watching traore's back (and btw, traore is awfull full back), so i would say that arsh and eddie were the best on the pitch today.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby gzagee » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:47 pm

Myrmedus wrote:If you consider it a favourable result, which is where your argument comes into semantics. I don't view a home draw vs. Everton as a favourable result, and I certainly don't when pulling it back to 1-1 for the 2nd half, heh.

Also, I'm not talking purely after our loss to them. Long before we played them they had bad games where they pulled off victories...heck they weren't exactly on fire when they actually played us. Their midfield was completely overrun but they fell back on the strength of their defence and attack to win.

I also don't want to judge purely by Chelsea and Man Utd's standards - we want to beat them to the title, not equal them, so we should shoot for better not equality. We're a better football team than both, which is the hardest ingredient to improve, so all we need is to 'plug-in' a couple of extra strings to the bow from individual player capabilities. Chelsea and Man Utd have been dragged along by individuals, not by team performances, so if Arsenal had as many of those individual capabilities in addition to our performance as a team we'd crush them; and I'm not even talking about individuals like Fabregas who can turn a game on its head by himself, those kinds of players aren't someone you can just go and rent from a video story. I'm purely talking about players who have particular strengths to their game that would add to our team.


Then why use Pensioners as a way of making a point? :confused2:

Myrmedus wrote:Just take a look across at Chelsea. There have been so many games where their midfield played badly, sometimes their defence aswell, but because Drogba (and even Anelka) are so good they dragged the team through the dirt and stole the game
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Myrmedus » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:49 pm

The way we played on the day is quite irrelevant to me though, because then if we played every game poorly you could argue it'd be favourable to draw every game.

Also did you actually watch or listen to the games Chelsea won before playing us? They weren't on fire at all. A perfect example was the Bolton (A) game - Chelsea beat them 4-0. Now if you only looked up the result I can definitely see how you'd think they were on fire but they weren't, they were actually quite poor.

For the first 40 minutes Bolton were the dominant team, they hit the post and had an effort cleared off the line whilst Chelsea offered next to nothing in response. Then, Lampard scores out of the blue and Chelsea steam roll it with Drogba producing yet another commanding display. However, as a team, they were poor even though they won 4-0.

This is the difference. What I'm talking about is that one contigent of your team, when it's THAT good, can pull out results for you that often actually flatter you. Or, they don't even have to be that 'good' but have multiple dimensions to them. Arsenal can't play well every game but we still need to win games where we don't and to do that you need as many strengths to your team as possible that give you random goals out of the blue.

We're definitely better than last season, of course, but I still think we're a bit off title-winners unless we reinfornce.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Myrmedus » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:50 pm

gzagee wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:If you consider it a favourable result, which is where your argument comes into semantics. I don't view a home draw vs. Everton as a favourable result, and I certainly don't when pulling it back to 1-1 for the 2nd half, heh.

Also, I'm not talking purely after our loss to them. Long before we played them they had bad games where they pulled off victories...heck they weren't exactly on fire when they actually played us. Their midfield was completely overrun but they fell back on the strength of their defence and attack to win.

I also don't want to judge purely by Chelsea and Man Utd's standards - we want to beat them to the title, not equal them, so we should shoot for better not equality. We're a better football team than both, which is the hardest ingredient to improve, so all we need is to 'plug-in' a couple of extra strings to the bow from individual player capabilities. Chelsea and Man Utd have been dragged along by individuals, not by team performances, so if Arsenal had as many of those individual capabilities in addition to our performance as a team we'd crush them; and I'm not even talking about individuals like Fabregas who can turn a game on its head by himself, those kinds of players aren't someone you can just go and rent from a video story. I'm purely talking about players who have particular strengths to their game that would add to our team.


Then why use Pensioners as a way of making a point? :confused2:

Myrmedus wrote:Just take a look across at Chelsea. There have been so many games where their midfield played badly, sometimes their defence aswell, but because Drogba (and even Anelka) are so good they dragged the team through the dirt and stole the game


To set a benchmark of what we should attempt to be better than. In my eyes, at least at the moment, we're still slightly behind Chelsea let alone better than them.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby niko197 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:52 pm

gzagee wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:If you consider it a favourable result, which is where your arguments comes into semantics.

Also, I'm not talking purely after our loss to them. Long before we played them they had bad games where they pulled off victories...heck they weren't exactly on fire when they actually played us.


I do consider it a favourable result seeing as we would've lost a game like that playing the ways we did last season.
That point might be crucial come the final standings.

Yes, they were pulling great reults out the fire earlier in the season. That result away to Wigan is one that comes to mind...

And they were on a run of 7 wins in 8 when they played us. ;)


i agree with gza, because we played with everton at home doesn't mean that we have god given right to win, everton were better team and they had win in hand and we came back, you can say it's just a point, but it's better then 0.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby gzagee » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:52 pm

Play poorly yet still win 4-0? Sign of a decent team wouldn't you think? :dontknow:
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Myrmedus » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:53 pm

niko197 wrote:
Myrmedus wrote:
niko197 wrote:
simsuk wrote:This match just shows that we need a proven goalscorer up front. Wenger needs to blow the cash on a high calibre player such as Villa or Dzeko. I don't want to rely on Walcott, who should be sold for a packet of crisps.


you haven't watch the game mate, if you had you would know that the midfield was disgrace today, we hardly even came in position to score.

we have to be honest, without song and fabregas, with disappointing ramsey, denilson and nasri we can't beat anyone. everton was better team and we're lucky with the one point.


Of course but this is the point. All teams have areas of their team which play badly on occasion, it's why you need to have strength all over the field to compensate.

When your attack isn't playing well you need a good defence.

When your defence is having an off day you need a good attack.

If your midfield isn't playing well you need a good attack and defence to 'steal' a game for you.

In the rarest of occasions you have more than one component of the team playing badly and these are the games you usually lose, but you shouldn't lose games (apart from against rivals) on the basis of one component playing badly. If you do then you lack personnel. We need a striker to give us an extra dimension to compensate for the odd games where our midfielders don't play like kings.

Just take a look across at Chelsea. There have been so many games where their midfield played badly, sometimes their defence aswell, but because Drogba (and even Anelka) are so good they dragged the team through the dirt and stole the game. If we had that kind of offensive power (which we do when RvP is around to be fair) we would've won this game today even if we did play b adly.


sorry mate, but today we didn't have "one component of the team playing badly", almunia, whole defence, whole midfield except diaby were disgrace!! eddie and arshavin had to make chances for them, first goal was created by arshavin and eduardo, if you haven't seen they were all over the pitch, how many times i saw eduardo on our corner line watching traore's back (and btw, traore is awfull full back), so i would say that arsh and eddie were the best on the pitch today.


I'm not slating Arshavin or Eduardo for their performance, it's just that no matter how well they play they don't grow an inch for every good deed they do!

My point is about improving the capabilities of the team. No matter how well we play we're a weak aerial team - I'd like to see that weakness removed for example. I constantly recite Chelsea's games because it's a perfect example of what I mean. They play shit, their attackers play shit but because of the capabilities of a player like Drogba they just grab a completely undeserved goal out of nowhere due to raw strength and ability.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Rockin' Robin » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:53 pm

Was the score 2-2 for Chelsea at home to Everton too? That's when they had a full-strength team, we didn't have Song, Cesc, van Persie, Bendtner, Walcott or Clichy.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby Myrmedus » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:55 pm

gzagee wrote:Play poorly yet still win 4-0? Sign of a decent team wouldn't you think? :dontknow:


EXACTLY.

Yet how often do we destroy teams like that when we play poorly? We win some games when we play poorly but they're often hair-line victories.

This is my precise point. Chelsea play like shit but can still cut out victories alot of the time because their team is more 'well-rounded' than ours - if one type of attack isn't working they can use another. If their midfield is shit their defence can hold for it. They're strong in each department AND in multiple ways. We need to 'round' our team off with some additional capability and that's why I want to see those 3 players brought in Jan....
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Re: Arsenal Vs Everton | Premiership 09/01/10

Postby gzagee » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:56 pm

The Midfield General wrote:Was the score 2-2 for Chelsea at home to Everton too? That's when they had a full-strength team, we didn't have Song, Cesc, van Persie, Bendtner, Walcott or Clichy.


It was 3-3.

And yes mate, we played sh*t without vital players and managed to get a draw. Could've won it if time permitted.
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