What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Talk about the FIFA World Cup 2010 in South Africa

Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby gzagee » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:22 pm

Tactical lessons? Thus far Spain have shown Arsenal how to play the Arsenal way.. but with far more effect!
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Inchpräctice » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:34 pm

It's funny because as soon as I read the thread title I immediately thought of the 'two DMs' formation.
Said it many times on here but the success of that system has been well proven in the past and the WC only emphasises that even more.
Personally I'd be very happy to adopt that system at Arsenal and actually if it worked we would probably be better at it than most because we use attacking wing backs.

It doesn't mean the end of attacking football imo it only secures the midfield a bit more than it is now.
Last season we scored billions of goals but got nowhere, maybe it's better to score fewer goals but keep a clean sheet?
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby StLGooner » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:43 pm

Inchpractice wrote:It's funny because as soon as I read the thread title I immediately thought of the 'two DMs' formation.
Said it many times on here but the success of that system has been well proven in the past and the WC only emphasises that even more.
Personally I'd be very happy to adopt that system at Arsenal and actually if it worked we would probably be better at it than most because we use attacking wing backs.

It doesn't mean the end of attacking football imo it only secures the midfield a bit more than it is now.
Last season we scored billions of goals but got nowhere, maybe it's better to score fewer goals but keep a clean sheet?



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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby GunnGunn » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:47 pm

gzagee wrote:Tactical lessons? Thus far Spain have shown Arsenal how to play the Arsenal way.. but with far more effect!


Am i the only person who thinks Spain play nothing like Arsenal?

And effect?

They will go down as the worst final winners ever, should have been knocked out twice.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby StLGooner » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:53 pm

I don't think its Spain being boring, I think its the way teams are playing them thats making it boring. Teams are just sitting back waiting for them to attack, which causes Spain to be patient, something Arsenal aren't always good at, plus they have a bit of more technically skillful players than us, hence why they eventually score at least 1 goal, where as Arsenal would concede cause we don't defend as a team.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Inchpräctice » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:16 pm

ChVint22 wrote:
Inchpractice wrote:It's funny because as soon as I read the thread title I immediately thought of the 'two DMs' formation.
Said it many times on here but the success of that system has been well proven in the past and the WC only emphasises that even more.
Personally I'd be very happy to adopt that system at Arsenal and actually if it worked we would probably be better at it than most because we use attacking wing backs.

It doesn't mean the end of attacking football imo it only secures the midfield a bit more than it is now.
Last season we scored billions of goals but got nowhere, maybe it's better to score fewer goals but keep a clean sheet?



Jose is that you?

He he definitely not!
Don't appreciate what he did to The Chavs, too negative for me.
GunnGunn wrote:
gzagee wrote:Tactical lessons? Thus far Spain have shown Arsenal how to play the Arsenal way.. but with far more effect!


Am i the only person who thinks Spain play nothing like Arsenal?

Yeah you are.
There are massive similarities.
For example the way they pass sideways in the opposition half for hours on end waiting to score the perfect goal. Ring any bells?
The way all their players are really small and they don't hoof it ever and almost never play a high ball anywhere.
The only difference is that they're playing two DMs so they're more solid defensively, and obviously they have a better GK.
They also create fewer chances, preferring to hold on to possession and take fewer risks, although some of that could be down to Torres' lack of fitness.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby CynicalGooner » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:21 pm

Then really Spain play like Barcelona, not Arsenal

Slower tempo, much more pointless passing, far less cutting through balls, patient build up
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby GunnGunn » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:26 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:Then really Spain play like Barcelona, not Arsenal

Slower tempo, much more pointless passing, far less cutting through balls, patient build up


My point, in a nutshell.

We also have far more pacier players, and a far more pacier style of play.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Inchpräctice » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:26 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:Then really Spain play like Barcelona, not Arsenal

Slower tempo, much more pointless passing, far less cutting through balls, patient build up

Yeah absolutely, they are more like Barca than us but they do have a lot in common with us as well.
That's why when we played Barca everyone said 'Here's two teams that play in a very similar way'.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Goose » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:38 pm

Of course they play like Barca, at least 7 or 8 of their squad is from Barca.

Who is Barca modelled on?

Ajax, their style of play and youth development was imported by Cruyff.

Who has Wenger modelled Arsenal on?

Ajax or "Dutch football" as he says
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby CynicalGooner » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:45 pm

I don't think the similarities are as clear as people make out. Sure we both play attacking football and have fairly similar formations, at least for now but the way they are employed are quite different. Loads of teams play attacking football, I guess we are just the two highest profile ones.

Both ways of playing are obviously influenced by the Dutch, but with their own unique spin on it governed by the leagues we play in. Arsenal play with much more pace and athleticism and Barca focus on more intricate passing and rehearsed plays.

Holland of the 08 Euro's played very much like Arsenal do now. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger modelled our current 4-3-3 tactics on that team
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Inchpräctice » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:36 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:I don't think the similarities are as clear as people make out. Sure we both play attacking football and have fairly similar formations, at least for now but the way they are employed are quite different. Loads of teams play attacking football, I guess we are just the two highest profile ones.

It's not just that we both love to attack. Real Madrid, Chelski and Manure are very attacking teams but they don't get compared to us.

As I said above it's the fact that Barca have small, technical players and some of them have come up through their youth system.
They always keep the ball on the ground and play the passing game, no hoofball and very little crossing into the box.
One of the reasons Cesc would fit so well into the Barca team (if Xavi or Iniesta left) is because he already plays the same type of game at Arsenal.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Reverend Gooner » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:01 pm

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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby Goose » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:10 pm

Inchpractice wrote:
CynicalGooner wrote:I don't think the similarities are as clear as people make out. Sure we both play attacking football and have fairly similar formations, at least for now but the way they are employed are quite different. Loads of teams play attacking football, I guess we are just the two highest profile ones.

It's not just that we both love to attack. Real Madrid, Chelski and Manure are very attacking teams but they don't get compared to us.

As I said above it's the fact that Barca have small, technical players and some of them have come up through their youth system.
They always keep the ball on the ground and play the passing game, no hoofball and very little crossing into the box.
One of the reasons Cesc would fit so well into the Barca team (if Xavi or Iniesta left) is because he already plays the same type of game at Arsenal.


It actually took the current Barca team about 5 years of no trophies to gel properly and start winning things, is it our turn now?

Also, Wilshere, JET, Eastmond, Lansbury et al are the 1st crop from our revamped academy, hopefully we will have a steady stream of 1 or 2 graduates populating our 1st team each season in the future.
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Re: What have been the tactical lessons of World Cup 2010?

Postby golfinguy » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:21 pm

The reason Spain seem so boring and slow.....

They are essentially playing with THREE DMs. Zavi with all his vision, talent, and ability - does not attack a defense very often. He sits deep being there for teammates and distributing in kind. All too often I see him pass a ball thru to a forward, have the forward lay it back again, and Zavi is standing idle, as if on a turret, making the next pass. He's rarely sprinting or even moving forward to attack the defense. In the meantime, the defense is coming back and regaining their shape, at which time 'patience' becomes necessary.

I'd say we're better in the attack - although we do match the above description too often as well. What we lack is the defensive tenacity and attitude they have - and as they have proven, that defensive tenacity and effectiveness does not rely on strength/steel. They are not large bodies careening into the opponents legs, they are buzzing pests that pressure you into a mistake. Where as we often do not even run back, much less pressure opponents - we drop back and let the opposition play. But I guess its easy to pressure a striker when you know you have a team to back you up - with Arsenal the rest of the team is watching you instead of helping you. :hiding:
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