Goonersworld

Showing more savvy on the dives is a difficult task. Granted its been years since I've refereed games, but certainly watching some of the tackles on TV I could not tell what level of contact was made until the slow motion replay - which Webb doesn't get to see. He gets one second to make the call - we get all night with replays.

There were certainly some antics after minimal contact that was over the top by Spain. But the contact in many cases was still worthy of a penalty, just not a yellow. Spain was certainly doing what they could to get guys sent off. But the Dutch played into that by consistently fouling - making it easy to fall over crying. What was Webb to do - he doesn't get our at home advantage. I don't blame him much for all that.

He did make a few mistakes though - Puyol should have been whistled for that foul and sent off. DeJong should have been issued a straight red, but Webb must not have seen it clearly. He was conned by Iniesta late, letting play go on then calling it after play stopped when there was no advantage to play - should have called it straight away or not at all. Missed that clear corner, but linesmen play a role there too.

Fabrestuta wrote:Have to STRONGLY disagree with the Robben/Puyol incident PG. They were battling for the ball Puyol may have put his hand on him but not really enough to do anything. Robben to his credit (and my amazement) didn't drop as if shot, but after he stayed on his feet then didn't get a shot away he has NO grounds to start moaning.

Ok, Which one was the bigger foul? The Puyol/Robben incident or the Heitenga/Iniesta incident?

Secondly, If you look at the Puol/Robben incident you will see Puyol committ atleast 3 clear fouls in that 1 action. First he holds back Robben second he falls to the ground and his body catches robben on his heels. If you ignore Puyol/ Pique and just look at Robben you will see a man that was at full flight but for a moment (and at a key moment) is slowed down. Robben tried his best to go through because he wanted to score.

For me that was a clear foul and even there is an argument for a red card definately a yellow in my opinion and the game changes.

I was thinking about the non-call on the Puyol challenge again. Given that all Robben had to do was go down and it would have certainly been called and possibly a red for Puyol.... does the fact that it wasn't called just encourage more theatrics? Sure, the players are to blame for most of this nonsense - but given that sometimes the whistle isn't blown unless they do, is it any wonder its so prevalent?

For once in Robben's footballing life he was 'honest'... and punished for it. What incentive does he have to stay on his feet next time? None. And that is truly sad.

I said something along those lines right after the final whistle golfin...

There is no justice in football. Iniesta gets a man sent off with a flop and his team wins... Robben tries to stay on his feet and fight for a goal, his man doesn't get even a yellow and his team losses... shame...

what is it with english refs and the world cup???

Im not a fan of Webb anyway but he went crazy in the final, seems to go to their heads, he issued what 13 or 14 cards i lost count but at least he didnt give someone 3 yellows

I think the reason why the game got ruined so badly was because Webb went onto the pitch thinking I dont want to spoil the final. Therefore I will try my best not to send anyone off or give a penalty unless it is absolutely blatant.

He wanted to avoid all controversy but this was purely for himself.

I dont understand why referee's do this. They should go onto the pitch, no matter what the game, to apply the rules. If as a result of that someone gets sent off after 5 minutes then its their fault not the referees fault.

If all referee's were consistent then players will not take liberty and risks.

ProudGooner wrote:I think the reason why the game got ruined so badly was because Webb went onto the pitch thinking I dont want to spoil the final. Therefore I will try my best not to send anyone off or give a penalty unless it is absolutely blatant.

He wanted to avoid all controversy but this was purely for himself.

I dont understand why referee's do this. They should go onto the pitch, no matter what the game, to apply the rules. If as a result of that someone gets sent off after 5 minutes then its their fault not the referees fault.

I think if Webb had applied the letter of the law we'd have seen the first World Cup final where the game was abandoned.
The sending off he did was correct but (in my opinion) De Jong, Van Bommell and Robben were all lucky not to see red.
That'd leave the Dutch with 7 players, one more sent off and the game has to be abandoned.

Libertine wrote:

ProudGooner wrote:I think the reason why the game got ruined so badly was because Webb went onto the pitch thinking I dont want to spoil the final. Therefore I will try my best not to send anyone off or give a penalty unless it is absolutely blatant.

He wanted to avoid all controversy but this was purely for himself.

I dont understand why referee's do this. They should go onto the pitch, no matter what the game, to apply the rules. If as a result of that someone gets sent off after 5 minutes then its their fault not the referees fault.

I think if Webb had applied the letter of the law we'd have seen the first World Cup final where the game was abandoned.
The sending off he did was correct but (in my opinion) De Jong, Van Bommell and Robben were all lucky not to see red.
That'd leave the Dutch with 7 players, one more sent off and the game has to be abandoned.

I agree with that, which is why I think he did an ok job.

Libertine wrote:

ProudGooner wrote:I think the reason why the game got ruined so badly was because Webb went onto the pitch thinking I dont want to spoil the final. Therefore I will try my best not to send anyone off or give a penalty unless it is absolutely blatant.

He wanted to avoid all controversy but this was purely for himself.

I dont understand why referee's do this. They should go onto the pitch, no matter what the game, to apply the rules. If as a result of that someone gets sent off after 5 minutes then its their fault not the referees fault.

I think if Webb had applied the letter of the law we'd have seen the first World Cup final where the game was abandoned.
The sending off he did was correct but (in my opinion) De Jong, Van Bommell and Robben were all lucky not to see red.
That'd leave the Dutch with 7 players, one more sent off and the game has to be abandoned.

If Web had applied the laws there might have been 1 red card max (which there was anyway in the end)y. The moment that would have happened all the rest would have realised that this guy will not let us get away with yellow card/ red card offenses and they would have adjusted their game accordingly.

You are looking at a out of control game and looking at individual fouls and working out if it was a red card or not and coming to the conclusion there would have been a lot of sending offs. Ignoring the impact a red card would have had on the rest of the game.

In normal games when you show a yellow card straight away for a bad foul the rest of the players straight away get the message of what is acceptable and not acceptable. The guy recieving the yellow becomes more careful with his tackling.

If Howard Webb had shown Van Bommell a yellow for the first bad challenge he made it would have been a different game. If van bommell had then committed another bad foul maybe the ref could have pulled him up and told him one more bad tackle and you are off, I am sure Van bommel would have been a bit more careful.

The reason it got so out of hand was because the players could sense this ref is desperate to not send anyone off so they exploited that to the full extent.

I think the problem is (and this is in the EPL too) english referees allow way too much to go for the sake of allowing the game to flow. As a result they lose control of the game. The final game reminded me of the Croatia vs Australia game that was officiated by Poll. In both games there was an english referee that lost complete control of the game.