Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Talk about the FIFA World Cup 2010 in South Africa

Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby Sims » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:41 pm

What Suarez shows passion for his country. He sacrificed a possible place in the World Cup final (although he won't miss it if they do go through) just to see his team progress further in the round. No matter how you see it, it shows that he would rather see his country go through than a possible place to make a name for himself.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby mg86 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:01 pm

There's nothing foul with taking one for the team, he denied a goal but Uruguay were far more hurt by his dismissal. Ghana didn't finish their chances and paid for it. I think he was a hero for Uraguay.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:30 pm

Jay22 wrote:I agree probably 99% of the players would have done the same thing. But i don't think it justifies his actions. He cheated to stop Ghana from winning. Whether it's the hand of god, Henry's hand goal or this act, they all are cheating, simple as.

Why should he give a shit about Ghana?

He only cares about his team. Any player that wears the Arsenal Shirt I would only expect him to care about Arsenal. If an England player had done that I would be proud of him.

I think the criticism Suarez is getting is ridiculous. Who wouldnt have done the same? And if you didnt do the same then I would question your loyalty to the shirt you wear.

I would have done the same thing If I was in that position and if it had helped my team go through I would have been proud of myself.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:32 pm

SE13 wrote:For everyone in Uruguay, he'll be a hero. To most others, he'll be branded a cheat.

Let's face it, most players would have done the same, it's either out in the last minute, or take one for the team and a chance of staying in. He gambled and it paid off.

As to whether the goal should have been given, well, the ball didn't cross the line. By fair means or foul, it stayed out of the onion bag. Quite whether I'd be saying that if it had happened to Arsenal in the last minute of the Champions League Final remains to be seen.


According to the rule its not a goal and that is the end of that discussion.

The referee cannot make up the rules himself so he did the right thing.

The rule, however, is totally illogical and wrong.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:36 pm

Reverend Gooner wrote:He is definately a cheat, I don't think anyone can disputed that but there is so much cheating in this sport now the word cheat has lost alot of it's potency.

Ok how is he a cheat? He committed a foul, broke the rules and got punished.

You will saybecause it is a blatant and deliberate foul.

Well how is it any differnt to what pique did today? He pulled a paraguay player down to the ground to stop him from heading a corner. It is no different to the Suarez incident in principle. Both stopped a goal from being scored. Both broke the rules. Both got punished. Both teams missed the penalty.

How is it any different to what van bommel was doing the entire 90 minutes yesterday? Deliberate and cynical fouls all over the pitch. Is that cheating too?

Lets not go down this road because if we do then you will fail to find me one football player that is not a cheat.
Last edited by NotABlindFollower on Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:40 pm

Reverend Gooner wrote:
SE13 wrote:
Gunner Down Under wrote:
SE13 wrote:You could look at it another way. One on one with the keeper, he's rounded the keeper, and you are right behind him. Let him score, or pull him down?


Pull him down I guess.

But using your hands imo is worse :naughty:


No it's not, it's exactly the same thing, you've committed a foul, prevented a goal, and got yourself a red card. Different scenario, same outcome.


It is the difference in the scenario that matters. In your scenario the player is sent off for a professional foul (fouling being part of the game) whereas the scenario here is a player getting sent off for "unsporting conduct" (which is why FIFA have grounds to extend the ban which they wouldn't have in your scenario). That is the difference, a professional foul is against the rules but unsporting conduct is against the rules ands cheating, at least imo. It really depends how you define cheating.


Profession foul is also unsporting conduct. There is no difference in either scenario in my opinion. Someone pulling your shirt and deliberately fouling is no difference to this.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby Fabrestuta » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:41 pm

NotABlindFollower wrote:
Reverend Gooner wrote:He is definately a cheat, I don't think anyone can disputed that but there is so much cheating in this sport now the word cheat has lost alot of it's potency.


Ok how is he a cheat? He committed a foul, broke the rules and got punished.

You will see because it is a blatant and deliberate foul.

Well how is it any differnt to what pique did today? He pulled a paraguay player down to the ground to stop him from heading a corner.

How is it any different to what van bommel was doing the entire 90 minutes yesterday? Deliberate and cynical fouls all over the pitch. Is that cheating too?

Lets not go down this road because if we do then you will fail to find me one football player that is not a cheat.


Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Rev just say there is a lot of cheating in the game? Do you just browse threads for opportunities to troll?
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:46 pm

Jay22 wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Jay22 wrote:I agree probably 99% of the players would have done the same thing. But i don't think it justifies his actions. He cheated to stop Ghana from winning. Whether it's the hand of god, Henry's hand goal or this act, they all are cheating, simple as.

Why should he give a shit about Ghana?

He only cares about his team. Any player that wears the Arsenal Shirt I would only expect him to care about Arsenal. If an England player had done that I would be proud of him.

I think the criticism Suarez is getting is ridiculous. Who wouldnt have done the same? And if you didnt do the same then I would question your loyalty to the shirt you wear.

I would have done the same thing If I was in that position and if it had helped my team go through I would have been proud of myself.

I never said he should care about Ghana, did i? :rolleyes:
I am not saying other players won't do it, 99.9% of them will do the same thing but that doesn't justify his actions. If an Arsenal player did that, i would be terribly disappointed with him.


You said you think it doesnt justify his actions because he cheated to stop Ghana from winning. As if you expected him to care about Ghana.

If an Arsenal player took a personal setback to save his team I would be proud of him. Infact I believe this is one of the things we lack right now.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:47 pm

Fabrestuta wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Reverend Gooner wrote:He is definately a cheat, I don't think anyone can disputed that but there is so much cheating in this sport now the word cheat has lost alot of it's potency.


Ok how is he a cheat? He committed a foul, broke the rules and got punished.

You will see because it is a blatant and deliberate foul.

Well how is it any differnt to what pique did today? He pulled a paraguay player down to the ground to stop him from heading a corner.

How is it any different to what van bommel was doing the entire 90 minutes yesterday? Deliberate and cynical fouls all over the pitch. Is that cheating too?

Lets not go down this road because if we do then you will fail to find me one football player that is not a cheat.


Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Rev just say there is a lot of cheating in the game? Do you just browse threads for opportunities to troll?


If he did then he is wrong. Read my thread. I do not agree with him that this is cheating.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby Fabrestuta » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:49 pm

NotABlindFollower wrote:
Fabrestuta wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Reverend Gooner wrote:He is definately a cheat, I don't think anyone can disputed that but there is so much cheating in this sport now the word cheat has lost alot of it's potency.


Ok how is he a cheat? He committed a foul, broke the rules and got punished.

You will see because it is a blatant and deliberate foul.

Well how is it any differnt to what pique did today? He pulled a paraguay player down to the ground to stop him from heading a corner.

How is it any different to what van bommel was doing the entire 90 minutes yesterday? Deliberate and cynical fouls all over the pitch. Is that cheating too?

Lets not go down this road because if we do then you will fail to find me one football player that is not a cheat.


Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Rev just say there is a lot of cheating in the game? Do you just browse threads for opportunities to troll?


If he did then he is wrong. Read my thread. I do not agree with him that this is cheating.


IF he did? read his post.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby gzagee » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:50 pm

starmandb wrote:footballer.i would have expected an arsenal player to do the same thing rather than let the ball sail into the net and take the punishment afterwards.
he was sent off a penalty was awarded and as much as i feel sorry for ghana its all part of the game he got a penalty and missed it. suarez feining an injury earlier to try to get a player sent off was a far more distasteful occurence and outside acceptable rules of behaviour


GunnGunn wrote:Exactly Starman.

If i played for Arsenal i would do the same thing, England, same thing.

Call me a cheating prick if you like but if that what it takes, then that is what it takes, simple.


That's all very well and good. Now put yourself in the shoes of the opposition. England are fantastic at playing the victim card so it shouldn't be too hard to imagine.

Yep, that's right you'd've called him a cheat. The media would've dug up some obscure historical disagreement with said country and the nation would be whipped into a frenzy.

In England folks STILL going on about Maradona's 'Hand of God' goal. That was in 1986.
And trust me, no retrospective action would've eased any pain.

Anyhoo, it's only Ghana. In time it will be forgotten by most of the Western world whilst England will still mulch about Frank Lampard's 'goal'. Despite the fact it wouldn't have changed the outcome...
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:52 pm

Fabrestuta wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Fabrestuta wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Reverend Gooner wrote:He is definately a cheat, I don't think anyone can disputed that but there is so much cheating in this sport now the word cheat has lost alot of it's potency.


Ok how is he a cheat? He committed a foul, broke the rules and got punished.

You will see because it is a blatant and deliberate foul.

Well how is it any differnt to what pique did today? He pulled a paraguay player down to the ground to stop him from heading a corner.

How is it any different to what van bommel was doing the entire 90 minutes yesterday? Deliberate and cynical fouls all over the pitch. Is that cheating too?

Lets not go down this road because if we do then you will fail to find me one football player that is not a cheat.


Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Rev just say there is a lot of cheating in the game? Do you just browse threads for opportunities to troll?


If he did then he is wrong. Read my thread. I do not agree with him that this is cheating.


IF he did? read his post.


Did he not say Suarez is cheating?

I disagreed with that point he made. What is your point? Why are you arguing over nothing.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby Goose » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:53 pm

NotABlindFollower wrote:
Jay22 wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Jay22 wrote:I agree probably 99% of the players would have done the same thing. But i don't think it justifies his actions. He cheated to stop Ghana from winning. Whether it's the hand of god, Henry's hand goal or this act, they all are cheating, simple as.

Why should he give a shit about Ghana?

He only cares about his team. Any player that wears the Arsenal Shirt I would only expect him to care about Arsenal. If an England player had done that I would be proud of him.

I think the criticism Suarez is getting is ridiculous. Who wouldnt have done the same? And if you didnt do the same then I would question your loyalty to the shirt you wear.

I would have done the same thing If I was in that position and if it had helped my team go through I would have been proud of myself.

I never said he should care about Ghana, did i? :rolleyes:
I am not saying other players won't do it, 99.9% of them will do the same thing but that doesn't justify his actions. If an Arsenal player did that, i would be terribly disappointed with him.


You said you think it doesnt justify his actions because he cheated to stop Ghana from winning. As if you expected him to care about Ghana.

If an Arsenal player took a personal setback to save his team I would be proud of him. Infact I believe this is one of the things we lack right now.


Looked what happened to Eduardo and the "dive".

Could you imagine if it was this scenario?

Eduardo volley balled the ball off the goal line to stop Celtic getting to the group stages in the dying moments of the game?

I would not be proud
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby NotABlindFollower » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:54 pm

Jay22 wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Jay22 wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Jay22 wrote:I agree probably 99% of the players would have done the same thing. But i don't think it justifies his actions. He cheated to stop Ghana from winning. Whether it's the hand of god, Henry's hand goal or this act, they all are cheating, simple as.

Why should he give a shit about Ghana?

He only cares about his team. Any player that wears the Arsenal Shirt I would only expect him to care about Arsenal. If an England player had done that I would be proud of him.

I think the criticism Suarez is getting is ridiculous. Who wouldnt have done the same? And if you didnt do the same then I would question your loyalty to the shirt you wear.

I would have done the same thing If I was in that position and if it had helped my team go through I would have been proud of myself.

I never said he should care about Ghana, did i? :rolleyes:
I am not saying other players won't do it, 99.9% of them will do the same thing but that doesn't justify his actions. If an Arsenal player did that, i would be terribly disappointed with him.


You said you think it doesnt justify his actions because he cheated to stop Ghana from winning. As if you expected him to care about Ghana.

If an Arsenal player took a personal setback to save his team I would be proud of him. Infact I believe this is one of the things we lack right now.

There is a difference between personal setback or blatant cheating. And no, i would never be proud if any Arsenal player cheats to win a game.


First of all it is not cheating.

Secondly, I care about Arsenal FC. I want them to win and that is all I care.

If Arsenal won the CL trophy because someone scored with their hand you would go and return the trophy????

Or you would be really ashamed and live the rest of your life in hiding? I am sure you will be proud of our achievement. I would be.
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Re: Suarez. Villain or Hero?

Postby Fabrestuta » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:56 pm

NotABlindFollower wrote:
Fabrestuta wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Fabrestuta wrote:
NotABlindFollower wrote:
Reverend Gooner wrote:He is definately a cheat, I don't think anyone can disputed that but there is so much cheating in this sport now the word cheat has lost alot of it's potency.


Ok how is he a cheat? He committed a foul, broke the rules and got punished.

You will see because it is a blatant and deliberate foul.

Well how is it any differnt to what pique did today? He pulled a paraguay player down to the ground to stop him from heading a corner.

How is it any different to what van bommel was doing the entire 90 minutes yesterday? Deliberate and cynical fouls all over the pitch. Is that cheating too?

Lets not go down this road because if we do then you will fail to find me one football player that is not a cheat.


Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Rev just say there is a lot of cheating in the game? Do you just browse threads for opportunities to troll?


If he did then he is wrong. Read my thread. I do not agree with him that this is cheating.


IF he did? read his post.


Did he not say Suarez is cheating?

I disagreed with that point he made. What is your point? Why are you arguing over nothing.


I am not arguing. I am pointing out that you never seem to read all of someones post before you jump in.
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