Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Luzh 22]

Yeah should have probably checked before posting. Added link instead.

[Ach]

And that's fine. Just don't be moaning about not being able to go anywhere or do anything cos you aren't vaccinated. Not saying you are but people clearly are.

Well I'm not at the moment but why should I be stopped from going to Arsenal matches for example if I'm not vaccinated? What happened to personal choice? So if I want to enjoy anything I have to take a vaccine without long term proven results? Great.

Again, it's your personal choice and that's fine. Arsenal and football in general will do what's right for the public and having people in who aren't vaccinated and is a threat to others cos of it isn't right.

No idea why the long term effects are if any. I do know what the effects of covid are though and like hell im going through that. Thus I got both jabs and on we go

[Santi]

But making every day events an exclusive club for those who have either blindly vaccinated or decided the balance of risk is worth it for them, is completely unfair.

There is no need to make events require vaccines when testing has proved massively effective in identifying affected individuals. More than happily will do a test to attend but forcing me to take something that affects me for life? Nah, that's bullshit.

[Luzh 22]

My favourite is I'm not taking the vaccine cos I don't know what's in it.

Do people know what's in any medicine they take?

I trust the experts. Not some Facebook conspiracy theorists looking for a few likes.

I trust the experts after years of studies and results.

A new type of vaccine rushed through in less than a year? No thanks, lets wait and see for at least a years worth of studies post vaccination.

The fact is was rushed through in less than a year (the first time in history) should tell you everything you need to know about how serious this virus is. We, as a race, a one mutated strain away from complete disaster.

People keep saying they are pushing so hard for people to get vaccinated, because they have a financial interest in doing so. No, they are pushing so hard, because they have been advised by virologists as to how bad things could get should the virus mutate. It isn't only the hospitals being overwhelmed they are worried about.

[Ach]

But making every day events an exclusive club for those who have either blindly vaccinated or decided the balance of risk is worth it for them, is completely unfair.

There is no need to make events require vaccines when testing has proved massively effective in identifying affected individuals. More than happily will do a test to attend but forcing me to take something that affects me for life? Nah, that's bullshit.

No ones been blindly vaccinated. Everyone who has got it has got it cos they don't want a deadly disease. It's what we all wanted when it first came out march 2020 and now it's here, people refuse to get it cos it's too quick. You'd rather live in lockdown for a couple of years?

As said, the reason it's been done quickly is cos how serious covid is. The government have made a lot of mistakes. This isn't one.

I don't live my life worrying about what will happen years down the line. I live in the here and now. And in the here and now there is a serious virus going around and a vaccine has been created to fight it. It was a very simple choice. Do I know what's in it? Hell no but I dont know what's in most of the painkillers I take to null the pain I go through each day but they were recommended to me by experts as was the vaccine. Good enough for me. People who think they know more than experts cos of Facebook conspiracies make me laugh.

[Santi]

My favourite is I'm not taking the vaccine cos I don't know what's in it.

Do people know what's in any medicine they take?

I trust the experts. Not some Facebook conspiracy theorists looking for a few likes.

I trust the experts after years of studies and results.

A new type of vaccine rushed through in less than a year? No thanks, lets wait and see for at least a years worth of studies post vaccination.

The fact is was rushed through in less than a year (the first time in history) should tell you everything you need to know about how serious this virus is. We, as a race, a one mutated strain away from complete disaster.

People keep saying they are pushing so hard for people to get vaccinated, because they have a financial interest in doing so. No, they are pushing so hard, because they have been advised by virologists as to how bad things could get should the virus mutate. It isn't only the hospitals being overwhelmed they are worried about.

I know very well how serious it is, you can ask my gf how annoying I am now...basically the male Monica Gellar these days. However, I still believe everyone should have the freedom to make their own choice about putting something permanent in their bodies and every day life should not be infringed upon by not doing so.

Keep the testing prior to events, even on arrival LFD's should control it enough and those who are vaccinated can show their valid ''passport'' to bypass the testing if that is also deemed safe enough. For me that's quite simple and doesn't overly impose on any personal freedoms.

[Santi]

But making every day events an exclusive club for those who have either blindly vaccinated or decided the balance of risk is worth it for them, is completely unfair.

There is no need to make events require vaccines when testing has proved massively effective in identifying affected individuals. More than happily will do a test to attend but forcing me to take something that affects me for life? Nah, that's bullshit.

No ones been blindly vaccinated. Everyone who has got it has got it cos they don't want a deadly disease. It's what we all wanted when it first came out march 2020 and now it's here, people refuse to get it cos it's too quick. You'd rather live in lockdown for a couple of years?

As said, the reason it's been done quickly is cos how serious covid is. The government have made a lot of mistakes. This isn't one.

I don't live my life worrying about what will happen years down the line. I live in the here and now. And in the here and now there is a serious virus going around and a vaccine has been created to fight it. It was a very simple choice. Do I know what's in it? Hell no but I dont know what's in most of the painkillers I take to null the pain I go through each day but they were recommended to me by experts as was the vaccine. Good enough for me. People who think they know more than experts cos of Facebook conspiracies make me laugh.

It's a shame because you were having a half decent discussion then had to resort to the shit one liner at the end. That line may be true for DG but it's not representative of everyone who isn't in a rush to get the vaccine, nor does it mean we want to live in lockdown.

Quite simple, for me the balance of risk is best suited by continuing how I am and that means protecting myself as much as possible with masks, hygiene and limiting how many people I spend large amounts of time with. There is the risk I somehow get covid, despite washing my hands 5000 times a day and equally there is a risk of an, as yet unknown, complication or side effect with any of the vaccines. Now do I think the latter is lower risk than getting covid? Of course I do and that is why I will eventually get the vaccine...but as I said from the off, I want more scientific evidence and validation of that vaccine before I take it.

As for nobody taking it blindly, I assure you a lot of people have had that needle in their arm without a second thought.

[Luzh 22]

My favourite is I'm not taking the vaccine cos I don't know what's in it.

Do people know what's in any medicine they take?

I trust the experts. Not some Facebook conspiracy theorists looking for a few likes.

I trust the experts after years of studies and results.

A new type of vaccine rushed through in less than a year? No thanks, lets wait and see for at least a years worth of studies post vaccination.

The fact is was rushed through in less than a year (the first time in history) should tell you everything you need to know about how serious this virus is. We, as a race, are one mutated strain away from complete disaster.

People keep saying they are pushing so hard for people to get vaccinated, because they have a financial interest in doing so. No, they are pushing so hard, because they have been advised by virologists as to how bad things could get should the virus mutate. It isn't only the hospitals being overwhelmed they are worried about.

I know very well how serious it is, you can ask my gf how annoying I am now...basically the male Monica Gellar these days. However, I still believe everyone should have the freedom to make their own choice about putting something permanent in their bodies and every day life should not be infringed upon by not doing so.

Keep the testing prior to events, even on arrival LFD's should control it enough and those who are vaccinated can show their valid ''passport'' to bypass the testing if that is also deemed safe enough. For me that's quite simple and doesn't overly impose on any personal freedoms.

Couple of questions:

When things like leper colonies were set up, or small pox colonies, were the authorities of the day right or wrong in doing so, given the bolded part of your sentence?

Do you think herd immunity is effective at eradicating disease, whereby said disease cannot spread, because it has nowhere to spread to? I refer you to smallpox, and how it was eventually eradicated.

If you think herd immunity is effective at eradicating disease, do you believe having more people vaccinated is beneficial to achieving herd immunity quicker, rather than letting the disease spread naturally?

If you think it is more beneficial to have more people vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, would you say it was fair to suggest that those who will not be vaccinated are impinging on the personal freedoms of those who are vaccinated, by hampering the speed of which herd immunity is achieved, thus hampering the speed at which vaccinated people can return to living a normal day to day life, free from the threat of disease?

Do you believe that the longer it takes to achieve herd immunity, means the more time, and thus chance of a viral mutation negating the effectiveness of currently available vaccinations?

[Santi]

My favourite is I'm not taking the vaccine cos I don't know what's in it.

Do people know what's in any medicine they take?

I trust the experts. Not some Facebook conspiracy theorists looking for a few likes.

I trust the experts after years of studies and results.

A new type of vaccine rushed through in less than a year? No thanks, lets wait and see for at least a years worth of studies post vaccination.

The fact is was rushed through in less than a year (the first time in history) should tell you everything you need to know about how serious this virus is. We, as a race, are one mutated strain away from complete disaster.

People keep saying they are pushing so hard for people to get vaccinated, because they have a financial interest in doing so. No, they are pushing so hard, because they have been advised by virologists as to how bad things could get should the virus mutate. It isn't only the hospitals being overwhelmed they are worried about.

I know very well how serious it is, you can ask my gf how annoying I am now...basically the male Monica Gellar these days. However, I still believe everyone should have the freedom to make their own choice about putting something permanent in their bodies and every day life should not be infringed upon by not doing so.

Keep the testing prior to events, even on arrival LFD's should control it enough and those who are vaccinated can show their valid ''passport'' to bypass the testing if that is also deemed safe enough. For me that's quite simple and doesn't overly impose on any personal freedoms.

Couple of questions:

When things like leper colonies were set up, or small pox colonies, were the authorities of the day right or wrong in doing so, given the bolded part of your sentence?

Do you think herd immunity is effective at eradicating disease, whereby said disease cannot spread, because it has nowhere to spread to? I refer you to smallpox, and how it was eventually eradicated.

If you think herd immunity is effective at eradicating disease, do you believe having more people vaccinated is beneficial to achieving herd immunity quicker, rather than letting the disease spread naturally?

If you think it is more beneficial to have more people vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, would you say it was fair to suggest that those who will not be vaccinated are impinging on the personal freedoms of those who are vaccinated, by hampering the speed of which herd immunity is achieved, thus hampering the speed at which vaccinated people can return to living a normal day to day life, free from the threat of disease?

Do you believe that the longer it takes to achieve herd immunity, means the more time, and thus chance of a viral mutation negating the effectiveness of currently available vaccinations?

Fair questions.

1. Tbh I don't know enough about them to go into great detail but debatable given the time period, probably the best action they could've taken at the time. It was a completely different world where the population and mobility was much easier to control and people generally had less freedom in any case. However, this equates more to our lockdown and isolation processes than anything to do with the vaccine uptake really. Do you think things like this should be used now? Would people accept that?

2. Herd immunity can be effective, however I think the time for it to be very effective with covid has long passed and is less effective in such a fast spreading and easily transmissible virus. The better option was to immediately fight the spread and contain it. But again, the world was a completely different place when smallpox was eradicated (still took almost 200 years from vaccine to eradication) and the early mistakes have prevented that being possible with covid. I refer you to every other disease still in existence, the more than doubled population and the increased globalisation and mobility of those near 8 billion people. Let's not act like smallpox isn't the major outlier here, it's the ONE disease ever eradicated in humans.

Vaccinations are not the only way to achieve herd immunity but frankly the natural approach is at best risky and at worst barbaric. As for the potential follow on - 'Do you believe covid would be eradicated if every person in the world was vaccinated?'...at this point no I don't. It appears that the virus can still live and spread among the vaccinated so it is simply here to stay regardless much like it's obvious comparison, the flu.

3. Cannot give you a definitive answer to this. So far we know that the vaccine aides symptoms and ability to survive the disease. It's prevention of obtaining, hosting and spreading the virus I am not sure on - maybe the stats are out there. Until we know the latter, there is nothing to suggest that the vaccine will achieve herd immunity any quicker than natural spreading of the virus, only less people will have severe symptoms or end up dying from it.

4. No, regardless of the above two answers I would completely disagree with this. Vaccination is a choice either way, firstly whether to take it or not and secondly at what time one would take it. Those who chose to be vaccinated are accepting any risk of side effects and can go about their normal lives the exact same way they would should every person be vaccinated, it does not become a more effective vaccine by more people having it. The only case for this would be if the vaccine lessens host time and therefore the ability of the virus to spread. Those who chose not to be vaccinated should not be punished for this personal life choice, nobody is forcing people to not get the vaccine should they wish to and the same should apply in the other direction.

As with all governmental decisions, there has to be a balance. Returning to a life without lockdowns has to be balanced with personal freedoms, taking the latter away when there has been such high uptake of the vaccination in any case makes no sense to me. We will not be 'free from the threat of disease' regardless, whether it's covid or others they will always exist and have been lived with for centuries. If you are vaccinated and still scared because others aren't then I really ask why? Why did you take the vaccine? What did you know about it's effectiveness beforehand and why do you believe others need to get the vaccine to help you?

If a vaccine was proven 100% effective and no side effects (for ease of making the point), then I wouldn't care if I was the only one who had it to be quite honest. It's my personal choice and I'd be satisfied with that, others can make their own choice.

5. Probably some level of correlation there but with the virus spreading amongst vaccinated people in any case, there is still a threat of this whether people are vaccinated, unvaccinated or naturally immune. Nevermind the fact a virus can do what the f**k it wants and even with 1 case of covid in the world we could have a deadly mutation. For sure simple maths says 1 case lowers the mutation risk compared to 100,000 but does the vaccine actually lower the number of cases or just the symptoms? We really won't know unless everyone in the country gets tested daily regardless of symptoms and vaccination status.

Despite all of the above, I am not against the vaccine and never have been. The questions are quite suggestive that you think I am but it's simply all about personal choice and freedom, should anyone choose to live vaccine free they should be allowed. Now you could argue the same for mask wearing but my personal line for 'hindering freedoms' really comes down to the risk to your natural being. At the end of the day we get one body and one life, that doesn't give people the right to affect others unnecessarily, but it does give them the right to not have things forced into their body to attend an event ffs.

Tbh I don't think it will be held up anyway, other than for foreign travel, but even then I hope the testing regime will remain a viable option.

[Luzh 22]

Appreciate you taking the time to answer Santi. I'll reply tomorrow, with a decent response, as to why vaccines will hopefully speed up the process of recovery from the virus, thus rendering it having a shorter time to be transmissible from person to person. I also believe that the government is embarking on a herd immunity strategy (they wanted to do this originally until the hospitals filled up), so those that have not been vaccinated are going to be at terrible risk of infection because of this strategy.

In short, I don't believe those who are waiting to have a vaccine will have the chance to wait, they are going to be purposefully infected.

[DiamondGooner]

And that's fine. Just don't be moaning about not being able to go anywhere or do anything cos you aren't vaccinated. Not saying you are but people clearly are.

Well I'm not at the moment but why should I be stopped from going to Arsenal matches for example if I'm not vaccinated? What happened to personal choice? So if I want to enjoy anything I have to take a vaccine without long term proven results? Great.

The real answer is, is because they're trying to force you to have it, that's it.

As I said previously, how do these Covid passports make any sense? two scenarios.

A) Your double jabbed, you show a passport stamped and you get to go anywhere unfettered ........... but despite the passport, you have Covid.

B) You're not jabbed, you can't enter the premises but test and are negative.

Explain how you are more of a danger negative than the guy who's had the vaccine but is positive but he's not tested because he has the passport of stupidness.

This is why I have a problem with the whole thing, the monetary gain and the rush to the finish line to spit out a vaccine not truly tested long term as well.

They have a name for all those who blindly go first, its called being a Lemming.

[Dejan]

Almost all shares followed that exact same pattern though...

This lmao
What a weird argument to make PG.



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[pawiel]

My favourite is I'm not taking the vaccine cos I don't know what's in it.

Do people know what's in any medicine they take?

I trust the experts. Not some Facebook conspiracy theorists looking for a few likes.

I trust the experts after years of studies and results.

A new type of vaccine rushed through in less than a year? No thanks, lets wait and see for at least a years worth of studies post vaccination.

Here is the podcast with a guy from Moderna if you are interested

https://sloanreview.mit.edu/audio/ai-an ... e-johnson/

He is talking about their digital platform which is capable of fast design of drugs/vaccines based on mRNA technology. They have been building their framework from 2010.

As you can see on their website

https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-work ... t-covid-19

They had prototype of the vaccine we are using 2 days after Chinese authorities shared the genetic sequence of the virus thanks to their framework.
If you compare it to the previous vaccines where you could wait for a prototype for a year or two maybe more they were able to do it after 2 days. They were able to save huge amounts of time and start clinical testing much much sooner. Clinical trial were done as usual.

I would say with your scepticism about these Novavax is in 3rd phase and looking promising and is made by protein technology which is one of the oldest and tested by time.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ne/619276/

[Angelito]

Fully vaccinated, and currently on day eight of having COVID-19 - ask your questions here.

Is it the Delta variant, or there's no way of knowing that?

No way to know, but I am assuming so, as it is so prevalent here. It could also be the lambda variant though, because that is in my area too.

Ah, okay.

Delta variant has different symptoms. Mainly, headache, sore throat, and fever. Lambda variant has similar symptoms to the original infection.

What were your symptoms like?

[Jedi]

Pfizer has been FULLY approved by the American FDA. No more "it was rushed" or "emergency approval" nonsense.

Think It's time to start denying healthcare to anyone who doesn't want to get the vaccine.