In the news today....

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Re: In the news today....

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:13 pm

So Brandon what do you make of the Q&A I had with the Cosmologist?

From that and the other discussions we had plus I had done more research following I walked away thinking he was right tbh.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby Royal Gooner » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:15 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Angelito wrote:
LMAO wrote:Einstein was once skeptical about his own theory predicting the existence of black holes. A little over a hundred years later, astronomers captured images of one.

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May not seem like much, but it's one of the most incredible photos of our lifetimes tbh


And the most valuable information gets lost on religious fanaticism and armchair moral policing based on incredible works of fiction.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47891902


Is it really what they think it is though?

I've studied some of this stuff and they make these big announcements yet when you dig a little deeper that's sometimes all that they are ........... grand gesture announcements.

Are all the scientists in agreement that its a Black hole?

Why do I say this for e.g, they announced the Big Bang as fact when its not, I once had a conversation with an Cosmologist who explained to me that not all scientist accept that model and can even offer counter evidence, but the most popular theory prevails as standard.



Technically nothing about our existence or the beginning of the universe/time is a fact, because we don't know the big answers about any of it. Having said that, scientist as a whole don't claim things to be facts, even if it's quoted as such. We're supposed to realize as humans that we don't know these answers, so when something is discovered and said as fact, it really just means that's what the current evidence points to. Not everyone in the world of science agrees on everything. That's why it has to be viewed by scientific peers in the industry and agreed upon by the majority to accept it.


The Cosmologist I spoke to said there is a quiet section of scientists who think the big bang is bollocks.

However because its the big famous theory that is able to wrap is up neatly its not argued against.



I don't blame them. The Big Bang theory believed by scientists says that nothing exploded and created everything; which according to the laws of physics is impossible.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby LMAO » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:52 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Angelito wrote:
LMAO wrote:Einstein was once skeptical about his own theory predicting the existence of black holes. A little over a hundred years later, astronomers captured images of one.

Image

May not seem like much, but it's one of the most incredible photos of our lifetimes tbh


And the most valuable information gets lost on religious fanaticism and armchair moral policing based on incredible works of fiction.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47891902


Is it really what they think it is though?

I've studied some of this stuff and they make these big announcements yet when you dig a little deeper that's sometimes all that they are ........... grand gesture announcements.

Are all the scientists in agreement that its a Black hole?

Why do I say this for e.g, they announced the Big Bang as fact when its not, I once had a conversation with an Cosmologist who explained to me that not all scientist accept that model and can even offer counter evidence, but the most popular theory prevails as standard.



Technically nothing about our existence or the beginning of the universe/time is a fact, because we don't know the big answers about any of it. Having said that, scientist as a whole don't claim things to be facts, even if it's quoted as such. We're supposed to realize as humans that we don't know these answers, so when something is discovered and said as fact, it really just means that's what the current evidence points to. Not everyone in the world of science agrees on everything. That's why it has to be viewed by scientific peers in the industry and agreed upon by the majority to accept it.


The Cosmologist I spoke to said there is a quiet section of scientists who think the big bang is bollocks.

However because its the big famous theory that is able to wrap is up neatly its not argued against.



I don't blame them. The Big Bang theory believed by scientists says that nothing exploded and created everything; which according to the laws of physics is impossible.


A Catholic priest proposed the Big Bang theory and the Catholic Church accepts the Big Bang tbf
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Re: In the news today....

Postby LMAO » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:03 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:So Brandon what do you make of the Q&A I had with the Cosmologist?

From that and the other discussions we had plus I had done more research following I walked away thinking he was right tbh.


Maybe it's my current understanding, but I can't fathom suspending belief in Hubble's Law or the Doppler effect (i.e., redshift indicating something moving farther away and blueshift meaning it's moving closer). However, I do know redshifts (and blueshifts) can happen with gravity bending space-time instead of an actual movement of objects, so your dude might be onto something. It's a different angle I hadn't heard before.

It's gonna be something to look out for in the future for which school of thought becomes the more correct view with more and more evidence coming in and better telescopes going up.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:55 pm

LMAO wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:So Brandon what do you make of the Q&A I had with the Cosmologist?

From that and the other discussions we had plus I had done more research following I walked away thinking he was right tbh.


Maybe it's my current understanding, but I can't fathom suspending belief in Hubble's Law or the Doppler effect (i.e., redshift indicating something moving farther away and blueshift meaning it's moving closer). However, I do know redshifts (and blueshifts) can happen with gravity bending space-time instead of an actual movement of objects, so your dude might be onto something. It's a different angle I hadn't heard before.

It's gonna be something to look out for in the future for which school of thought becomes the more correct view with more and more evidence coming in and better telescopes going up.


Also to that summary at the end, when I thought about it and about how many stars there are that have been created they exceed the supposed age of the Universe (according to BB theory) so much that its not even funny.

If the Universe is only as old as they say how in gods name is there that many stars formed in that time?

Its not adding up for me.

The BB theory is a neatly wrapped, God inducing theory which if I recall needs Dark Matter to make the maths add up and to which I found out is an additional equation added to make it all work ............ when there's no proof Dark Matter even exists.

I had other research post this discussion and it was as this convo, punching holes that could not be ignored into the BB theory.

If I recall rightly that Cosmologist was working on a model which basically aged the Universe wayyy older than BB and stated that all this matter was always here or has been for so long that its impossible to even attempt to know its origin, that basically that answer is lost in infinity.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby Royal Gooner » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:31 am

LMAO wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Angelito wrote:
LMAO wrote:Einstein was once skeptical about his own theory predicting the existence of black holes. A little over a hundred years later, astronomers captured images of one.

Image

May not seem like much, but it's one of the most incredible photos of our lifetimes tbh


And the most valuable information gets lost on religious fanaticism and armchair moral policing based on incredible works of fiction.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47891902


Is it really what they think it is though?

I've studied some of this stuff and they make these big announcements yet when you dig a little deeper that's sometimes all that they are ........... grand gesture announcements.

Are all the scientists in agreement that its a Black hole?

Why do I say this for e.g, they announced the Big Bang as fact when its not, I once had a conversation with an Cosmologist who explained to me that not all scientist accept that model and can even offer counter evidence, but the most popular theory prevails as standard.



Technically nothing about our existence or the beginning of the universe/time is a fact, because we don't know the big answers about any of it. Having said that, scientist as a whole don't claim things to be facts, even if it's quoted as such. We're supposed to realize as humans that we don't know these answers, so when something is discovered and said as fact, it really just means that's what the current evidence points to. Not everyone in the world of science agrees on everything. That's why it has to be viewed by scientific peers in the industry and agreed upon by the majority to accept it.


The Cosmologist I spoke to said there is a quiet section of scientists who think the big bang is bollocks.

However because its the big famous theory that is able to wrap is up neatly its not argued against.



I don't blame them. The Big Bang theory believed by scientists says that nothing exploded and created everything; which according to the laws of physics is impossible.


A Catholic priest proposed the Big Bang theory and the Catholic Church accepts the Big Bang tbf


Yes, but the original theory as posited by the priest actually makes more sense than what scientists believe. The priest formed his theory as a way to explain how God made the universe. The key facet that scientists choose to ignore which makes the theory viable is that there was something that caused the big bang opposed to the nothing that they currently believe and put forward.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:31 pm

Royal Gooner wrote:I don't blame them. The Big Bang theory believed by scientists says that nothing exploded and created everything; which according to the laws of physics is impossible.


Lol that's actually a great way of putting it.

But you can say the same thing about God, how did God come from nothing?
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Re: In the news today....

Postby CynicalGooner » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:38 pm

The thing about science, particularly physics, is the theories are not set in stone. The people who come up with them in fact spend years trying to disprove their own theories before even thinking about presenting them to the world. The ones that have stuck around the longest are the ones that have held up to constant scrutiny (like Einstein's theory of gravity) or that there is a general consensus on because of a lack of a better alternative right now (big bang).

The truth is we don't know much, won't know much more in our life times and might never know everything.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:11 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:The thing about science, particularly physics, is the theories are not set in stone. The people who come up with them in fact spend years trying to disprove their own theories before even thinking about presenting them to the world. The ones that have stuck around the longest are the ones that have held up to constant scrutiny (like Einstein's theory of gravity) or that there is a general consensus on because of a lack of a better alternative right now (big bang).

The truth is we don't know much, won't know much more in our life times and might never know everything.


This.

A good scientist will go out of their way to prove their own previous work is wrong. Im currently listening to a physics post graduate level lecture on exoplanets. Its way above my level of understanding but what I've taken away from it is the sheer amount if effort that these guys put in to trying to get it right, trying to understand, trying to prove and disprove and explain.

A God fan has to shoehorn all of reality into the pages of a 2000 year old book that can never change

I'm with the science guy

I accept I'll never have all the answers. I'm cool with that and don't feel the need to fill gaps in my knowledge by saying ”well it must be magic then“
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Re: In the news today....

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:30 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:I don't blame them. The Big Bang theory believed by scientists says that nothing exploded and created everything; which according to the laws of physics is impossible.


Lol that's actually a great way of putting it.

But you can say the same thing about God, how did God come from nothing?


This is the issue in particular.

As much as we all and should bow to science ......... ultimately the universe itself is a big slap in the face to science.

Either way you slice it this Universe shouldn't exist.

Everything and I mean everything must have an origin, a beginning, everything has to be created from something but when you get to origin points your stuck.

Lets go back to the first atom of this Universe .......... where did that bugger come from?

That's why I fully believe the Cosmologist guy that I spoke to, they say the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, but the amount of matter in this Universe far outweighs those years even if you only count the number of stars.

"There are about 10 billion galaxies in the observable universe! The number of stars in a galaxy varies, but assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy means that there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe!"

I'm no scientist but judging by the size of a Star plus all the other matter in the galaxies around them this maths can't be right.

How can their be a galaxy made for every 1 billion years of the Universes existence? plus 100 billion stars created in each of those galaxies of those 1 billion years? .............

To me that's too much large scale matter created in that time.

Regardless we're at he end of our capability because we can't explain that first atom.
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Re: In the news today....

Postby CynicalGooner » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:42 pm

DG there's no correlation between how old the Universe is and how much matter is in the Universe.

The big bang theory states that all energy/matter in the entire universe was created at the exact same instant. Not just the obseravable universe either, as the whole universe could be tremendously bigger than what we can see. Or infinite.

It took some time for that energy to cool and form into matter, but it did that everywhere. So 13.7 Billion years is more than enough time for everything we see to form. In fact many stars have formed and died before our own sun was formed

It wasn't that one atom or molecule duplicated into many. It's that every shred of energy/matter was once in the same incredibly small, incredibly dense location and then expanded
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Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:54 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Royal Gooner wrote:I don't blame them. The Big Bang theory believed by scientists says that nothing exploded and created everything; which according to the laws of physics is impossible.


Lol that's actually a great way of putting it.

But you can say the same thing about God, how did God come from nothing?


This is the issue in particular.

As much as we all and should bow to science ......... ultimately the universe itself is a big slap in the face to science.

Either way you slice it this Universe shouldn't exist.

Everything and I mean everything must have an origin, a beginning, everything has to be created from something but when you get to origin points your stuck.

Lets go back to the first atom of this Universe .......... where did that bugger come from?

That's why I fully believe the Cosmologist guy that I spoke to, they say the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, but the amount of matter in this Universe far outweighs those years even if you only count the number of stars.

"There are about 10 billion galaxies in the observable universe! The number of stars in a galaxy varies, but assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy means that there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe!"

I'm no scientist but judging by the size of a Star plus all the other matter in the galaxies around them this maths can't be right.

How can their be a galaxy made for every 1 billion years of the Universes existence? plus 100 billion stars created in each of those galaxies of those 1 billion years? .............

To me that's too much large scale matter created in that time.

Regardless we're at he end of our capability because we can't explain that first atom.


you're missing a key fact. Its not creation of new matter, but existing matter both tiny and large creating new bodies. And that is caused by gravity. A large rock for example has its own gravity and, in layman's terms Hoovers up small particles around it. Then it smashes into something else, then the effect of the gravity and therefore hoovering is increased and that's how you get new bodies in space

You also have to consider that there's a term in astro physics called the “snow line“

This is the point in the gravitational field of any star where substances like methane are cool enough to exist as solid and or liquid. So the amount of matter available to create planets and also stars is vastly more than is immediately obvious and crucially, can change as gasses like methane move about
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Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:07 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:DG there's no correlation between how old the Universe is and how much matter is in the Universe.

The big bang theory states that all energy/matter in the entire universe was created at the exact same instant. Not just the obseravable universe either, as the whole universe could be tremendously bigger than what we can see. Or infinite.

It took some time for that energy to cool and form into matter, but it did that everywhere. So 13.7 Billion years is more than enough time for everything we see to form. In fact many stars have formed and died before our own sun was formed

It wasn't that one atom or molecule duplicated into many. It's that every shred of energy/matter was once in the same incredibly small, incredibly dense location and then expanded


Current understanding of the big bang is not that it created all matter but that the core matter previously existed. So currently many scientists are investigating whether the crude understanding of a big bang from nothing is in fact wrong
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Re: In the news today....

Postby CynicalGooner » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:13 pm

I know that, hence my last sentence. I'm just talking in laymans terms
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Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:26 pm

CynicalGooner wrote:I know that, hence my last sentence. I'm just talking in laymans terms


Well they don't necessarily believe that all the energy was in one place either

They do however believe that an incredibly large explosive event happened but still cant explain the cause
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