In the news today...

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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri May 27, 2022 9:44 pm

UFGN wrote:So to summarise your post:

Democratic states have generally made more progress in restricting guns. States can only do so much to restrict guns within their own borders as the constitution stands.

People who live in rural areas (who are more likely to be republican) are more likely to want to have guns

......you can never bring yourself to criticise the right can you? Everything is the fault of the left, until it's blatantly the fault of the right, and then in your opinion it's suddenly not a left Vs right issue. Convenient. Are you Ted Cruz in disguise? He tried to pull that one yesterday. Claimed that gun control isn't a political issue..... funnily enough he happens to be a republican and happens to take donations from the NRA


Its a constitutional right ffs.

This is not about Left or Right, this is about the actual law of the land.

I disagree with the public having guns and as much as more Republicans seem to want them unfortunately for your point scoring this is an American issue, not a Republican one.

Like I've said I given up on Left vs Right a long time ago, I couldn't give a fk for any wing, I vote for policies, I'm not looking to be down with one side or other, just good ideas.

So to sum up, how can I critcise the Right for wanting to have what the constitution allows them to have?

Do I agree with it personally, absolutely not, but this about changing a foundational law of America, so how can I slate those who want their rights .......... even if it is a dumb idea?
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Fri May 27, 2022 9:54 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:FFS, deal in facts. .


Ok

1) Crime is higher in cities cos cities gunna city.

Your cities are high in gun crime in particular because there is easy access to guns both legal and illegal..... because your country has such high gun ownership....therefore the market in grey guns and stolen guns is much more prevalent

2) UK no mass shootings for 25 years. Cos no guns.

3) Constitutional change is needed to restrict gun ownership in the US. The republican party will always block that because NRA backing wins every time over dead kids.

4) Most countries except maybe Pakistan don't have to worry about the rights and wrongs about whether or not to have bulletproof windows in primary schools. It's an American thing. Yes you have other problems but bullied teens can't go Rambo if they can't get a gun.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Fri May 27, 2022 10:03 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:So to summarise your post:

Democratic states have generally made more progress in restricting guns. States can only do so much to restrict guns within their own borders as the constitution stands.

People who live in rural areas (who are more likely to be republican) are more likely to want to have guns

......you can never bring yourself to criticise the right can you? Everything is the fault of the left, until it's blatantly the fault of the right, and then in your opinion it's suddenly not a left Vs right issue. Convenient. Are you Ted Cruz in disguise? He tried to pull that one yesterday. Claimed that gun control isn't a political issue..... funnily enough he happens to be a republican and happens to take donations from the NRA


Its a constitutional right ffs.

This is not about Left or Right, this is about the actual law of the land.

I disagree with the public having guns and as much as more Republicans seem to want them unfortunately for your point scoring this is an American issue, not a Republican one.

Like I've said I given up on Left vs Right a long time ago, I couldn't give a fk for any wing, I vote for policies, I'm not looking to be down with one side or other, just good ideas.

So to sum up, how can I critcise the Right for wanting to have what the constitution allows them to have?

Do I agree with it personally, absolutely not, but this about changing a foundational law of America, so how can I slate those who want their rights .......... even if it is a dumb idea?


Are you just being obtuse on purpose?

DG: This is terrible, change is needed

UFGN: Actually constitutional change is needed

DG: No it isn't

UFGN: Yes, it really is. It's constitutional rights that need to be changed to stop this

DG: I'm not going to criticise people for exercising their constitutional rights

:dizzy:

Would you listen to yourself?
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri May 27, 2022 10:29 pm

Its pretty simple.

I believe it should be changed however as you said that's easier said than done, now .........while it IS a constitutional right, Americans have the RIGHT to have guns don't they?

I don't expect them to just give them up even I feel its better for them to.

I can't slag off any Americans to have what is given to them in the constitution.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Fri May 27, 2022 10:35 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Its pretty simple.

I believe it should be changed however as you said that's easier said than done, now .........while it IS a constitutional right, Americans have the RIGHT to have guns don't they?

I don't expect them to just give them up even I feel its better for them to.

I can't slag off any Americans to have what is given to them in the constitution.


Well I'm happy to. I'll slag them off all day long for it. (Those who hold that opinion anyway) because of what's happening to innocent people as an indirect result.

Some kinds of hunting for sport are still allowed in this country. I can and will slag people off for that as well. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean you're not a c*** for doing it.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat May 28, 2022 2:01 am

UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Its pretty simple.

I believe it should be changed however as you said that's easier said than done, now .........while it IS a constitutional right, Americans have the RIGHT to have guns don't they?

I don't expect them to just give them up even I feel its better for them to.

I can't slag off any Americans to have what is given to them in the constitution.


Well I'm happy to. I'll slag them off all day long for it. (Those who hold that opinion anyway) because of what's happening to innocent people as an indirect result.

Some kinds of hunting for sport are still allowed in this country. I can and will slag people off for that as well. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean you're not a c*** for doing it.


But the actual issue is the law, not what people want, for example almost every American could give up / not buy guns, but that still wouldn't solve the problem .......... because the problem is buying guns is legal so it means nutters can still have access to them.

Its cultural yes, but its also a written constitution and so we're now back to square one, unless the American Gov't who are currently Democrat can actually effect change in the law then there will be no solving it .......... and if its true it needs 3/4 of the House to change a constitution then its not going to.

It gets to a point in that case that people choose where to live, if you live in a state or country where buying guns is legal then to a certain point you've taken that risk quite frankly.

We don't have guns in the UK for sale so that's good enough for me, what other people do there comes a point where you have to say fk em, let them live and die the way they choose, I'm not part of it so its not my problem, its theirs and their responsibilty to fix it.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 5:08 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Its pretty simple.

I believe it should be changed however as you said that's easier said than done, now .........while it IS a constitutional right, Americans have the RIGHT to have guns don't they?

I don't expect them to just give them up even I feel its better for them to.

I can't slag off any Americans to have what is given to them in the constitution.


Well I'm happy to. I'll slag them off all day long for it. (Those who hold that opinion anyway) because of what's happening to innocent people as an indirect result.

Some kinds of hunting for sport are still allowed in this country. I can and will slag people off for that as well. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean you're not a c*** for doing it.


But the actual issue is the law, not what people want, for example almost every American could give up / not buy guns, but that still wouldn't solve the problem .......... because the problem is buying guns is legal so it means nutters can still have access to them.

Its cultural yes, but its also a written constitution and so we're now back to square one, unless the American Gov't who are currently Democrat can actually effect change in the law then there will be no solving it .......... and if its true it needs 3/4 of the House to change a constitution then its not going to.

It gets to a point in that case that people choose where to live, if you live in a state or country where buying guns is legal then to a certain point you've taken that risk quite frankly.

We don't have guns in the UK for sale so that's good enough for me, what other people do there comes a point where you have to say fk em, let them live and die the way they choose, I'm not part of it so its not my problem, its theirs and their responsibilty to fix it.


You're carrying on like the constitution can't be changed. It can be changed. It's called an amendment. ie Amended. ie Changed.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 28, 2022 5:48 am

UFGN wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Rockape wrote:I’m a 60yr old bloke who isn’t prone to being emotional, but seeing the pictures of the children who’ve had their young lives wiped out by this piece of shit, just makes me want to cry.

How can it be possible that an 18 yr old can buy two assault rifles and a back pack full of ammo….. it just defies belief! Stupid, stupid Americans!


So what's Biden going to do about it?

Show's how corrupt they are, Democrats are supposed to be anti-guns, they've had around 5 different incidents of high level press and what do they do? nothing.

Where is the vote, where is the referendum to at least test the publics gauge on the subject?

Nothing, just talk, as per usual.

Truth is Washington don't give a sht if the American public slaughter each other, they care about gun profits.


How are they supposed to get anything on gun control through Congress? Seriously?


Funny you normally live in the past - now you suddenly forget - Nancy Pelosi (yup same bitch) was first elected speaker in the House in 2007 when for the next two years the Democrats had a majority in both the House and Congress - did they tackle gun control? Did they feck, instead they started a troop surge in Iraq massively supporting the gun lobby, under the Dems there was a near 20% increase in private gun ownership over the next four years 2007-11, this figure remained fairly constant under Obama then declined slightly under Trump, now under Biden it's shooting back up .... go figure

How are they supposed to get anything done - you're having a laugh - they have no intention of doing anything, not when they had the power and not now.

US politics is fecked - indeed the US is fecked - the sooner we all cut ties the better.


Well I agree with your last sentence but stop trying to put an obviously right wing problem onto the left and pretending it's somehow their fault

Did they have a two thirds majority so they could enact constitutional change? If not, would the republicans have helped them?

No and no.


The 2/3rds majority is not required when you have House, Senate and President .... but you're right they cant do anything in the current impasse, which will only get worse come November ....

Most legal gun owners are Republican that's true, the vast majority of illegal guns are in Democratic controlled states and cities - so why is it all a Republican problem again?

The reality is Biden will now say "We are coming after your guns" that will lead to a massive INCREASE in gun sales, Biden and the Dems will then once again do nothing leaving an additional 30k-40k guns on the streets with no changes in the law. Don't believe me? the stock market is already factoring it in ..... just watch and learn.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/05/26/gun-ammo-stocks-texas-shooting/


If a law is passed, which is later deemed by the SC to be unconstitutional, then that law can not stand. Unless 2A is replaced by a new amendment, then that's exactly what would happen

Hence the need for two thirds support which the republicans will never help with.

Which is precisely why both Obama and Biden were and are reduced to trotting out worthless rhetoric.

The right just love their guns more than they love the idea of kids not getting shot in their classrooms



Is Left v Right you're only position? There are vastly more illegal guns in "Left" controlled areas of the US than in "Right" controlled areas, there are vastly more gun deaths in "Left" controlled areas of the US than in "Right" controlled areas .... so what?

This isn't left v right it's how you deal with having the highest gun related deaths in the civilised world - Switzerland has a very high gun ownership, but it hasn't had a mass shooting in 21 years and it's homicide rate is effectively zero. Why? Because you cant buy a gun at the 7/11, because gun permits are issued at a local level where you are known, you can't have a drink or drugs conviction, potential owners have to prove they have been trained in the use of firearms and finally a test (psych, personality, attitude) must be passed. Having a weapon without a permit leads to a long jail sentence.

These are all measures that could receive bi-partisan support - why won't the "Left" support them and bring them forward? .... can you answer that?
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 10:34 am

EliteKiller wrote:.


Is Left v Right you're only position? There are vastly more illegal guns in "Left" controlled areas of the US than in "Right" controlled areas, there are vastly more gun deaths in "Left" controlled areas of the US than in "Right" controlled areas .... so what?

This isn't left v right it's how you deal with having the highest gun related deaths in the civilised world - Switzerland has a very high gun ownership, but it hasn't had a mass shooting in 21 years and it's homicide rate is effectively zero. Why? Because you cant buy a gun at the 7/11, because gun permits are issued at a local level where you are known, you can't have a drink or drugs conviction, potential owners have to prove they have been trained in the use of firearms and finally a test (psych, personality, attitude) must be passed. Having a weapon without a permit leads to a long jail sentence.

These are all measures that could receive bi-partisan support - why won't the "Left" support them and bring them forward? .... can you answer that?


1) It is a left Vs right issue when such a high proportion of gun owners are from one side of the divide, and that same side of the divide is disproportionately funded and supported by gun lobbyists

Does the NRA support all those restrictions? Do NRA funded senators back them? I doubt it


2) Also, from BBC News

Illinois has stricter gun laws than Texas but experiences a higher rate of gun crime, especially in the city of Chicago.
However, the majority of guns recovered in Chicago come from other states, often with looser gun laws, such as neighbouring Indiana and Mississippi.


You snidely comment that cities and areas with stricter gun controls have more gun deaths……we all know where those guns are coming from.

It’s like these places are trying to stop cholera, and you’re shitting in their wells to reinfect them. Not only that but you’re then criticising them for having cholera.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Sat May 28, 2022 12:08 pm

We don't have guns in the UK for sale so that's good enough for me, what other people do there comes a point where you have to say fk em, let them live and die the way they choose, I'm not part of it so its not my problem, its theirs and their responsibilty to fix it.


Huh? There are gun shops all across the UK. One needs a "licence" to own a shotgun or rifle and that process has been abused greatly by the local police all over Southern England in the past year. Perfectly legal owners, minding their own business have been swooped in on by police at their homes and had their firearms confiscated without warrants or due process. I doubt that most London dwellers have a clue that England allows hunting of deer, boar, fox etc with rifles for sport and population control.

Guys like UFGN ignorantly claim that hunters are c****, without knowing f**k all about the subject. He also seems to think that legal gun ownership by law abiding citizens should be criminalized when the illegal guns in places like Chicago are banned but ignored. Last year Mayor Lightfoot and the DA let six gang bangers who shot up a house...on f***ing camera...walk because they claimed there was not enough evidence to even hold them. One of the six was killed in another gang shooting the next weekend, and two others were arrested for a driveby that killed a baby. A black gun control advocate member of Congress was caught with an illegal handgun in PA (no carry permit and a city ban). Rules for thee etc. The point is that the left is fine with illegal guns but has a huge issue with legal gun owners. Why would that be? Not hard to scratch away to the truth, simple politics of emotional appeal. This issue is no different from all their alarmist "issues". Faux racism claims, illegal immigration, attacking family values, women's rights, gay rights (which are codified in law already), pregnant males...all the PC BS that is part of their savior/victim politics. I was always skeptical about the protection from the government angle, but after C19, WEF, the rapid shift toward totalitarianism. Not so much now.

These shootings are a social issue, not just schools but the far more prevalent urban gang warfare. As such the only solution is to try to fix the basic underlying problems. It is not possible nor will ever happen that the likes of Beto will confiscate legal firearms from law abiding citizens. Coddle the crooks and demonize the honest men.

We now know that the police failed to enter the school for over an hour while the killing went on, AND tazed and handcuffed PARENTS. The church shooting in KS a few years back, stopped by an armed citizen who came from his home to save people. The court case in NYC in which two cops were deemed not to have a "duty" to protect the public. The Florida school shooting in which the armed school cop ran away. So the government does not have an obligation to defend you, yet the left wants to deny you the right of self defence. Bullshit. Anyone that vilifies the law abiding while letting criminals walk without even bail is utterly stupid.

So if we are to address the social aspects, the core issues need to be addressed. That includes social decay caused by liberal policies and corruption in the cities and elsewhere. That requires a fundamental political shift back to norms and standards that work, ie follow the Constitution and that requires voting out the Soros funded DAs, replacing the woke liberals who care nothing about root causes much less solving issues. Rather they double down on failed policies that keep them in power. That is what is going to happen in November. If so we have a chance to start to regain control. If not, well good luck city folk.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 12:22 pm

^^ There's so many factual inaccuracies and bad faith bs in there I just can even start.

EK the only defence you have is that you like guns and you want to keep your gun.

Until it's legal for an 18 year old to drive a truck without a license (because why not? Yeah trucks are dangerous and someone could get killed, but so what?) then anything else you have to say on the subject is just kicking and screaming, frankly.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 28, 2022 12:42 pm

UFGN wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:. It’s like these places are trying to stop cholera, and you’re shitting in their wells to reinfect them. Not only that but you’re then criticising them for having cholera.


What a mind-numbingly stupid analogy .....

There are plenty of guns everywhere on the planet only dumb as shit Americans blame just the guns for killing people - if you want a more relevant analogy try the drunk driver - do we ban all cars because of a few drunk drivers are killing people? or do we deal with drunk drivers? do we fail to legislate against drunk drivers (not their vehicles) because we can hide behind political bullshit?

Do you really believe that guns, drugs, cartels are the root problem not the growing lack of education, lack of parenting, and lack of governance that are obviously the real issues? How can you be that naïve?
Last edited by EliteKiller on Sat May 28, 2022 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 28, 2022 12:47 pm

UFGN wrote:^^ There's so many factual inaccuracies and bad faith bs in there I just can even start.

EK the only defence you have is that you like guns and you want to keep your gun.

Until it's legal for an 18 year old to drive a truck without a license (because why not? Yeah trucks are dangerous and someone could get killed, but so what?) then anything else you have to say on the subject is just kicking and screaming, frankly.


Typical UFGN bullshit - first you tell me what I think, in fact I don't and never have owned a gun, and then you post some bullshit response to your own fabrication. Like it or not guns don't kill people, people do. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have gun control, of course you should, the stricter the better, but try looking at why the US has an almost unique gun problem not just make it another right v left UFGN dirge .... that's just so tedious.
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 1:01 pm

EK Americans with guns kill people

What they need is less guns and better social cohesion, education and social services

None of the above will be provided by Republicans.

America needs a proper centre left government to fix these problems. That's not me being glib, it's simply common sense looking at the problems they face.

Re gun ownership, apologies I confused you with PRISS
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Re: Re: In the news today....

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 28, 2022 1:39 pm

UFGN wrote:EK Americans with guns kill people

What they need is less guns and better social cohesion, education and social services

None of the above will be provided by Republicans.

America needs a proper centre left government to fix these problems. That's not me being glib, it's simply common sense looking at the problems they face.

Re gun ownership, apologies I confused you with PRISS



Finally a sensible post - well first line anyway ....

Republican states in general have better social cohesion, reasonable education results, and reasonable social services - that of course is because they don't in general contain large poor urban areas .... social services and education are/should be federally mandated so you get the same service wherever you live, the same should apply with gun control.

The issue is that the Left's solution is to take away gun ownership rights from people who in the main DO NOT go around killing people - the Right's issue is they see gun deaths as mainly the Left's problem so don't want to do anything.

The reality is gun control - i.e. the ability of criminals and nut-jobs to get guns - is pathetically weak. Where central government Left and Right should agree is that federal gun licensing should be the same in all states, that like nearly every civilised nation on the planet guns cannot be bought in local shops, or sold anonymously by private citizens, not without full federal and local oversight. Selling an unregistered gun must be a serious criminal offence.

FYI - The vast majority of illegal guns end up in Democratic controlled areas - sure that because they control most urban sprawls and that they are brought in from outside - but if the Dems fixed that - banned all guns within city limits that didn't have a city issued permit, there is nothing the right could or would do to stop that - has any city they control yet done that?

The UK and Australia got rid of 90% of guns through various legislation, to accept that a ruling Democrat or a ruling Republican President, or indeed a bipartisan agreement, can't succeed - right there is why the US is f***ked, and it serves 'em right.
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