Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[theHotHead]

There are of course many drugs that have passed trials only to be later removed, pesticides, chemicals all kinds of things used for years to later be found to cause some death sentence.
The pespective for many and it can not be ignored is many of the drugs trialed as said in earlier posts have taken years to pass and some later get re-called.
Corona 19 has been here for not even two years.
Lets call it for what it is and thats the largest trial ever taken

VCC you would think this would be common sense, but some people are just plain f***ing stupid I guess ....

[VCC]

There are of course many drugs that have passed trials only to be later removed, pesticides, chemicals all kinds of things used for years to later be found to cause some death sentence.
The pespective for many and it can not be ignored is many of the drugs trialed as said in earlier posts have taken years to pass and some later get re-called.
Corona 19 has been here for not even two years.
Lets call it for what it is and thats the largest trial ever taken

VCC you would think this would be common sense, but some people are just plain f***ing stupid I guess ....

Remarkably we are now dealing with the Delta varient in my country,
The first varient c19 infected over 2 thousand people most of those being in little areas of NZ but country wide.
The more contaigeous varient Delta has now hit the only cases being less than 50 and 1000 to date or last i looked a week ago. These cases were all in our most populated city wich holds more than half our population,
Seems strange the numbers dont make sense.
But fear gets the vaccination program moving.

[Power n Glory]

And one last thing. Fence sitting and saying "everyone should decide for themselves" is an opinion. And a horrible one at that.

Wait, you're saying people shouldn't decide what they're going to do as individuals?

So you're straight up promoting authoritarianism?

favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Got it...

Wow lmao

[Jedi]

Still no mid to long term data, so thats a risk, thats an unknown and when you consider the number if yellow cards, its a worry.

If the development of the vaccines was as thorough as it should have been the blood clot issue with the Astra Zeneca vaccine would've been seen during those trials, governments around the world would not have had to halt their vaccination programme to look into it. It would',ve been a known entity.

Use your brain instead of arguing in bad faith for the sake of arguing. You're so entrenched that you will say anything without actually thinking about it.

AstraZeneca bloodclots happen in about 0.0005% of cases or in about 1 out of 200,000 cases. How would you see those in phase 3 trials if they lasted longer, when phase 3 trials only have from a couple of thousand to 50k participants max. The AstraZeneca stage 3 trials specifically had 20,000 participants so even if they lasted for the next 50 years, you would never notice any blood clots.

This is why I say you shouldn't decide for yourself and instead defer to the experts. You can't even get past the first hurdle of understanding how basic statistics work but you think you know better about whether the vaccine is safe. Ridiculous.

[theHotHead]

Still no mid to long term data, so thats a risk, thats an unknown and when you consider the number if yellow cards, its a worry.

If the development of the vaccines was as thorough as it should have been the blood clot issue with the Astra Zeneca vaccine would've been seen during those trials, governments around the world would not have had to halt their vaccination programme to look into it. It would',ve been a known entity.

Use your brain instead of arguing in bad faith for the sake of arguing. You're so entrenched that you will say anything without actually thinking about it.

AstraZeneca bloodclots happen in about 0.0005% of cases or in about 1 out of 200,000 cases. How would you see those in phase 3 trials if they lasted longer, when phase 3 trials only have from a couple of thousand to 50k participants max. The AstraZeneca stage 3 trials specifically had 20,000 participants so even if they lasted for the next 50 years, you would never notice any blood clots.

This is why I say you shouldn't decide for yourself and instead defer to the experts. You can't even get past the first hurdle of understanding how basic statistics work but you think you know better about whether the vaccine is safe. Ridiculous.

By having more people take part and to run them for longer. Pfizer had over 40,000 in their stage 3 trials compared to AZ, for example. In fact, taken directly from the Pfizer website:

The Phase 3 clinical trial of BNT162b2 began on July 27 and has enrolled 43,661 participants to date, 41,135 of whom have received a second dose of the vaccine candidate as of November 13, 2020. Approximately 42% of global participants and 30% of U.S. participants have racially and ethnically diverse backgrounds, and 41% of global and 45% of U.S. participants are 56-85 years of age. A breakdown of the diversity of clinical trial participants can be found here from approximately 150 clinical trials sites in United States, Germany, Turkey, South Africa, Brazil and Argentina. The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years.

Why will they continue to check efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years ???? According to you the science is set, everything is safe, why is there the need to carry on observing people ?

And also, tell me if the pharma companies are so convinced their vaccines are safe that NONE have accepted responsibility for their vaccines !! They take responsibility for their other drugs, so why not this one ?! Squirm your way out of that. You talk a lot of shit about people being smarter than me, I don't need to have a doctorate in science to understand the reason why, but please, continue to believe everything you are told. f**k the experts, they chat shit with their agendas, just like you are, they hide behind "science". And your entire argument is based on blood clots, what about other issues ?!! The ONLY WAY mid to long term safety of a drug can be known without having mid to long term data on it is by being an Oracle or some clairvoyant. Not you, not f***ing the WHO, MHRA or the FDA can tell us with any confidence and be sure. So don't sit there and chat shit. You and the rest of the scientific world backing these vaccines base your confidence on ASSUMPTION not FACT - because you don't have all of the FACTS ! The facts will come out in the future ... because the drugs were rushed to market.

Can't believe I have to spell this out to people - basic f***ing common sense is lacking ...

[Jedi]

Weird pivot from you saying you would notice a 1 in 200,000 cases side effect in a study with 20,000 people if it lasted longer...

It's a 1 in 200,000 cases side effect, you donut. You would need millions of people to actually form a link between the the vaccine and the side effect. There's never been such a trial in the history of mankind and there never will be.

[Santi]

The fact you call it ‘fence sitting’ like it’s a Messi v Ronaldo debate says it all.

You’re just trying to hide behind this mask of ‘well uh all muh scientists say it’s good so imma tell u to take the vaccine, otherwise ur an idiot or a caveman’.

I don’t understand why you think you are god because you got a vaccine that’s practically still in trials lol

Practically still in trials? Weird way to say no longer in trials and fully approved as completely safe to take.

As for the rest of your post, it sounds like hardcore projecting. I'm not the one with the hurt ego. You said it yourself you don't care what other people do and you only care about your personal choice so I really don't know why you're still in this thread.

No, seems you are the one with the over inflated ego.

Must be a side effect of the vaccine. I'll let pfizer know.

[Santi]

For the first thing, I don't know what respecting everyone's wishes means, I think It's dumb if people don't want to get the vaccine and I will continue saying that because It's my opinion to which I am entitled to. You are of course entitled to disagree. But none of it means anyone has to be forced to succumb to my will. As far as harm goes, no it doesn't harm me directly but low vaccination rates do harm society as a whole.

Well by your own notion, what's the point in you keep coming in this thread to say the below then?

So this blanket indication that people who've had the vaccine get lesser symptoms is not proven.

Lab coat man gets lots of people. Lab coat man gives half people vaccine and other half placebo. Lab coat man wait few months. He check how many sick. Only 5 or 6 vaccinated sick, but in placebo group hundreds sick. A few in placebo group even die. Zero in vaccine group die.

Vaccine good, vaccine work. Vaccine make man less sick. Get vaccine.

Get vaccinated.

You did get one thing right though:

I am entitled

[DiamondGooner]

Lets be completely honest here.

The only reason this debate is turning bitter is because a few individuals who are pro-vaccine are trolling (Ach), or disrespecting (Jedi) the choices others have made.

Quite frankly there's no need for it.

Jedi you basically said others can have their opinion, but in "your" opinion, its a stupid one, of course that is going to cause a bad discourse.

Especially when they have every right to be cautious or wait, its their body, their choice, the vaccine is there for those like yourself to feel "safe", other people can do as they see fit.

There has been including what I have posted, a raft of links and sources to debate the ones you and Ach have posted, tbh I don't think either of you have done a good enough job explaining those contradictions.

The stance of "I've had the vaccine so now I'm perfectly safe and can't contribute to spreading the virus, but all you dirty Anti-vaxxers will" is completely false which makes your entitled stance something others won't accept.

I provided 5 links of people who died from Covid, post having the vaccine.

[Ach]

Don't need to explain anything lol. I'm no expert on this.

I'm going with the actual experts on this. Not what conspiracy theorists say on FB or drunkards in a hospital.

Not yet seen one actual good reason on why people shouldn't take the vaccine.

I would like to live and not to endanger others and would do anything to do that. It's a shame that isn't the case for others and would rather find reasons not to take a vaccine

It is what it is and I'll continue laughing at the anti vaxxers. Especially the ones who deny they are anti vaxxers

[Jedi]

Lets be completely honest here.

The only reason this debate is turning bitter is because a few individuals who are pro-vaccine are trolling (Ach), or disrespecting (Jedi) the choices others have made.

Quite frankly there's no need for it.

Jedi you basically said others can have their opinion, but in "your" opinion, its a stupid one, of course that is going to cause a bad discourse.

Especially when they have every right to be cautious or wait, its their body, their choice, the vaccine is there for those like yourself to feel "safe", other people can do as they see fit.

There has been including what I have posted, a raft of links and sources to debate the ones you and Ach have posted, tbh I don't think either of you have done a good enough job explaining those contradictions.

The stance of "I've had the vaccine so now I'm perfectly safe and can't contribute to spreading the virus, but all you dirty Anti-vaxxers will" is completely false which makes your entitled stance something others won't accept.

I provided 5 links of people who died from Covid, post having the vaccine.

Nobody said this. I think I've gone over this 10 times already, including the sunscreen analogy for which you viciously attacked me for.

So for the last time:

Vaccines don't offer 100% protection. They still almost eliminate death and vastly decrease serious illness. They still LOWER (not eliminate) transmission.

If you apply sunscreen, you can still get sunburnt. Does that mean sunscreen doesn't work? No, because it makes it much less likely to get sunburnt and if you do It's milder.

Condoms don't work 100% of the time. Does that mean you should have sex with strangers with no protection?

Surgeries don't work out 100% of the time and people sometimes die. Does that mean we should stop doing surgeries?

^ Can you adopt this as the position you are arguing against instead of going back to "vaccines are 100% perfect" claim that no one ever made?

[theHotHead]

Weird pivot from you saying you would notice a 1 in 200,000 cases side effect in a study with 20,000 people if it lasted longer...

It's a 1 in 200,000 cases side effect, you donut. You would need millions of people to actually form a link between the the vaccine and the side effect. There's never been such a trial in the history of mankind and there never will be.

You are literally incapable of digesting anything that is a departure from your narrative. Its like talking to a child. I categorically stated that you are making the argument for ONE THING - the blood clots. What about other issues ? I mentioned a single issue, there are plenty of others. FFS man !

You posted that AZ had 20,000 people in the phase 3 clinical trials, what if the issues showed up after 25,000 tests ? The Pfizer phase 3 test included over 40,000 people - DOUBLE that of Astra Zeneca. Does that mean the Pfizer test was more thorough ?!! But but but ..... the governing bodies have approved the drugs so they must be ok

How can one company test twice the amount of people as another company and confidence in the 2 drugs be the same ?!! Total bollox ... just like your argument friend.

[theHotHead]

You did get one thing right though:

I am entitled

The guy cannot smell the shit that he is shovelling !

[theHotHead]

Lets be completely honest here.

The only reason this debate is turning bitter is because a few individuals who are pro-vaccine are trolling (Ach), or disrespecting (Jedi) the choices others have made.

Quite frankly there's no need for it.

Jedi you basically said others can have their opinion, but in "your" opinion, its a stupid one, of course that is going to cause a bad discourse.

Especially when they have every right to be cautious or wait, its their body, their choice, the vaccine is there for those like yourself to feel "safe", other people can do as they see fit.

There has been including what I have posted, a raft of links and sources to debate the ones you and Ach have posted, tbh I don't think either of you have done a good enough job explaining those contradictions.

The stance of "I've had the vaccine so now I'm perfectly safe and can't contribute to spreading the virus, but all you dirty Anti-vaxxers will" is completely false which makes your entitled stance something others won't accept.

I provided 5 links of people who died from Covid, post having the vaccine.

The guy is a tool !! I have just been told by my missus that the wedding we were supposed to be going to in October has been postponed because the bride and the groom (and their daughter) have all caught Covid 19 and both the bride and groom are double jabbed

[theHotHead]

A simple look at the government's website shows the current status of "Yellow Card" reports, suspicions that the vaccine has caused an adverse reaction. Close to 350,000 yellow cards ...... but but but the governing bodies said it is safe ........