Coronavirus (COVID-19)

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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Santi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:24 am

Rockape wrote:
Santi wrote:All well and good but I’m not riding motorbikes or having a morphine addiction so would be nice if all the cuunts going to asda can just wear a mask, cheers.


My thoughts exactly! I dropped into LIDL earlier to stock up on alcohol and all the customers were wearing masks except this one couple in front of me in the queue. I just about managed to resist saying something but it was hard. I even saw him cough slightly while close up to a shelf looking at something. He then took something from their trolly and took it back........FFS!

Just shows you have to be careful out there, when there is still this amount of fuckwittery around!



Lol we had the exact same thing in Asda (although 50% not in masks at least) where some older lady was stood at the biscuits with no mask on and coughing all over the show. Some poor bastard 10 mins later is gonna come and buy those biscuits with no idea whatsoever, so harsh.

I’m literally taking all my shopping items from the back of the shelf after that :lol:
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:20 pm

Two momentous concerning C19.


South Park is addressing Covid 19 on Sep 30. One hour "Pandemic Special".

Oxford has resumed phase three trials on the Astrazeneca vaccine after the single patient who had some minor spinal issues (whatever that means) recovered fully. They don't suspect the vaccine was to blame.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Callum » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:49 pm

Santi wrote:Don’t know why people are still expecting a successful vaccine tbh. Said all along we don’t have one for a common cold or flu and this is a very similar virus. Much more likely imo we’ll end up living with it like we do with flu.

Completely agree with doing your best to avoid it, anyone who doesn’t is stupid really given the volume of unknowns about the virus and it’s effects long term. Unfortunately probably most of us have already had some level of infection we weren’t even aware of, will be very interesting if they get a reliable antibody test.

I honestly think this’ll end up a bit like 9/11 in that it changes how countries approach things permanently, we’ll probably have testing at events worldwide forever once they start bringing it in and you’ll end up needing to show a corona negative test to go to a festival or whatever. Unfortunate but the only way it seems any normality can be resumed given the lack of hope I have for a vaccine.

The coronavirus is nothing like the common cold or flu at all. First of all, the "common cold" isn't a singular virus, it's a collection of what are mostly rhinoviruses and it's a term used to describe the different viral strains that cause a mild illness without significant symptoms (runny nose, mild cough etc).

Secondly, we absolutely do have a vaccine for the flu? You can get one every year to combat the most prevalent strains circulating around winter time.

I agree that this coronavirus might be lingering around for a while, but there are number of highly promising vaccine trials currently ongoing that have shown promising results. With the amount of money and work being done to procure one, and the nature of this coronavirus itself, it's highly likely we will have an efficient vaccine approved for use in the coming months.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Angelito » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm

Re: Vaccines

We haven't discovered vaccines for SARS and MERS so far.

It's been 8 years since MERS first erupted into the scene and 18 years since SARS-CoV became an endemic even though it's first cases go back to the 60s. It simply was an endemic before unlike this novel Coronavirus.

While the research for SARS-CoV-2 virus is being conducted at an unprecedented volume, discovery and safe administration of a virus is a phase that spans a decade more or less, if it's ever discovered.

The three are similar as they're all single-stranded RNA viruses.

There's hoping and there's being specific. In my estimation, Covid-19 is here to stay for the next 40-50 years. There might be a sudden boom in scientific technology that enables the discovery of a vaccine, but as it stands, it looks unlikely that Covid-19 just disappears. What makes it even more lethal is the airborne transmission, which isn't the case for MERS.

Vaccines might build our immunity against the virus. But the virus won't just disappear. That's not how viruses work.

We might have to learn to live with it. Wearing masks, washing hands, physical distancing, and using sanitizers might as well become the norm for us now.

Unless there's a groundbreaking discovery, the literature we have so far, and the nature of these RNA viruses, we are looking at a generation that will be defined as the Corona generation in forty year's time.

Gloomy as it may sound, life as we have known it, has ceased.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Jedi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:29 pm

Angelito wrote:Re: Vaccines

We haven't discovered vaccines for SARS and MERS so far.

It's been 8 years since MERS first erupted into the scene and 18 years since SARS-CoV became an endemic even though it's first cases go back to the 60s. It simply was an endemic before unlike this novel Coronavirus.

Why the fvck would anyone look for a vaccine for a Virus that's been contained in 2004. Neither virus has had more than a few thousand cases so there's absolutely no demand to create a vaccine which is a very expensive and complicated process.

While the research for SARS-CoV-2 virus is being conducted at an unprecedented volume, discovery and safe administration of a virus is a phase that spans a decade more or less, if it's ever discovered.

The three are similar as they're all single-stranded RNA viruses.

There's hoping and there's being specific. In my estimation, Covid-19 is here to stay for the next 40-50 years. There might be a sudden boom in scientific technology that enables the discovery of a vaccine, but as it stands, it looks unlikely that Covid-19 just disappears. What makes it even more lethal is the airborne transmission, which isn't the case for MERS.

Vaccines might build our immunity against the virus. But the virus won't just disappear. That's not how viruses work.

We might have to learn to live with it. Wearing masks, washing hands, physical distancing, and using sanitizers might as well become the norm for us now.

Unless there's a groundbreaking discovery, the literature we have so far, and the nature of these RNA viruses, we are looking at a generation that will be defined as the Corona generation in forty year's time.

Gloomy as it may sound, life as we have known it, has ceased.

All of this is nonsense based on everything we've heard from leading experts in the field. Mass production of vaccines is most likely going to start very soon (early 2021) and when it does things are going to go back to normal.

Yes, the virus will remain in circulation for many years/decades to come but it's going to lose a lot of its potency and yearly vaccination for elderly and other risk groups will help curb it even more.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Callum » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:13 pm

We likely won't fully eradicate the coronavirus entirely, because it's insanely difficult to do. I think we'll only truly eradicated 2 or 3 virus-based diseases in history. However, there's very little to suggest that we won't have a working vaccine within the next 6-12 months, and obviously it's in every country's interest to vaccinate its population en masse so we can build herd immunity. Once we hit a high percentage of populations vaccinated the R number will drop below 1 and we won't see epidemics like we have done, aside from localized outbreaks in some areas.

Once we have that, life will go back to relatively normality although the societal effects will be long lasting for a number of reasons. The SARS and MERS vaccine attempts are simply not comparable because the threat they post to the world at large is simply incomparable, and a fraction of the energy and resources dedicated to this coronavirus was put into them.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Angelito » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:25 pm

Jedi wrote:
Angelito wrote:Re: Vaccines

We haven't discovered vaccines for SARS and MERS so far.

It's been 8 years since MERS first erupted into the scene and 18 years since SARS-CoV became an endemic even though it's first cases go back to the 60s. It simply was an endemic before unlike this novel Coronavirus.

Why the fvck would anyone look for a vaccine for a Virus that's been contained in 2004. Neither virus has had more than a few thousand cases so there's absolutely no demand to create a vaccine which is a very expensive and complicated process.


My point is that there isn't a vaccine for SARS-CoV, not whether it was contained or not. There isn't. The first time the virus came into being was in the 60s. The difference is it wasn't a pandemic then as much as it was an outbreak. The vaccine wasn't discovered because scientists were unable to, not because they were unwilling to.

Not sure why you're getting itchy.

We don't have a vaccine for HIV either. But we know of the ways we can limit it's spread, or avoid catching the virus. Covid-19 is different, more complex. Just that.


Jedi wrote:
Angelito wrote:While the research for SARS-CoV-2 virus is being conducted at an unprecedented volume, discovery and safe administration of a virus is a phase that spans a decade more or less, if it's ever discovered.

The three are similar as they're all single-stranded RNA viruses.

There's hoping and there's being specific. In my estimation, Covid-19 is here to stay for the next 40-50 years. There might be a sudden boom in scientific technology that enables the discovery of a vaccine, but as it stands, it looks unlikely that Covid-19 just disappears. What makes it even more lethal is the airborne transmission, which isn't the case for MERS.

Vaccines might build our immunity against the virus. But the virus won't just disappear. That's not how viruses work.

We might have to learn to live with it. Wearing masks, washing hands, physical distancing, and using sanitizers might as well become the norm for us now.

Unless there's a groundbreaking discovery, the literature we have so far, and the nature of these RNA viruses, we are looking at a generation that will be defined as the Corona generation in forty year's time.

Gloomy as it may sound, life as we have known it, has ceased.

All of this is nonsense based on everything we've heard from leading experts in the field. Mass production of vaccines is most likely going to start very soon (early 2021) and when it does things are going to go back to normal.

Yes, the virus will remain in circulation for many years/decades to come but it's going to lose a lot of its potency and yearly vaccination for elderly and other risk groups will help curb it even more.


Bold #1 - Yes, that's what is planned, but it remains uncertain. Top experts have also said that vaccine is unlikely before the end of 2021. So, I'd be wary if someone proposed mass distribution of a vaccine that hasn't been discovered yet.

Virology and vaccination is a complex field. It's not as clear cut as spending billions in developing vaccines against it. The current lot of research is based on building immunity against the virus, not eliminating it, as I have mentioned.

Bold #2 That's the whole gist of what I just said. The Coronavirus will remain. Life, as we knew it, will and has changed. The vaccine will work in preventing mass transmission but vaccination is a complex science.

When will we have a coronavirus vaccine?

A vaccine would normally take years, if not decades, to develop. Researchers hope to achieve the same amount of work in only a few months.

Most experts think a vaccine is likely to become widely available by mid-2021, about 12-18 months after the new virus, known officially as Sars-CoV-2, first emerged.

That would be a huge scientific feat and there are no guarantees it will work.

Four coronaviruses already circulate in human beings. They cause common cold symptoms and we don't have vaccines for any of them.


However, no-one knows how effective any of these vaccines will be.


LinkBBC

So, when you claim that things are going to resume normal service once the vaccination is developed, you're on tricky territory. Your first assumption is that an absolute vaccine will come into being. I've seen no scientist be as sure as you are. Second, you think everything will return to normal once the vaccine is out, which again, is only you being certain, not virologists and pandemic experts.

So, chill the eff off.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Santi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:58 pm

Callum wrote:
Santi wrote:Don’t know why people are still expecting a successful vaccine tbh. Said all along we don’t have one for a common cold or flu and this is a very similar virus. Much more likely imo we’ll end up living with it like we do with flu.

Completely agree with doing your best to avoid it, anyone who doesn’t is stupid really given the volume of unknowns about the virus and it’s effects long term. Unfortunately probably most of us have already had some level of infection we weren’t even aware of, will be very interesting if they get a reliable antibody test.

I honestly think this’ll end up a bit like 9/11 in that it changes how countries approach things permanently, we’ll probably have testing at events worldwide forever once they start bringing it in and you’ll end up needing to show a corona negative test to go to a festival or whatever. Unfortunate but the only way it seems any normality can be resumed given the lack of hope I have for a vaccine.

The coronavirus is nothing like the common cold or flu at all. First of all, the "common cold" isn't a singular virus, it's a collection of what are mostly rhinoviruses and it's a term used to describe the different viral strains that cause a mild illness without significant symptoms (runny nose, mild cough etc).

Secondly, we absolutely do have a vaccine for the flu? You can get one every year to combat the most prevalent strains circulating around winter time.

I agree that this coronavirus might be lingering around for a while, but there are number of highly promising vaccine trials currently ongoing that have shown promising results. With the amount of money and work being done to procure one, and the nature of this coronavirus itself, it's highly likely we will have an efficient vaccine approved for use in the coming months.


There's no single vaccine for all flu viruses, also have you ever actually had one of the yearly ones? They're really f***ing useless lol (usually around 50% effective), I actually got ill from one previously as well. So yes claim there's a vaccine if you like but I really don't consider that a successful barometer or something that gives me hope for a covid vaccine. I shouldn't have mentioned common cold, just lumped it in with flu as traditionally done, although some colds are caused by similar viruses tbf but you're right, more commonly rhinoviruses.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:15 pm

Many are missing the forest for the trees. Covid 19 as we KNOW is only deadly to a significant population that is elderly or has underlying conditions.
Look at the mortality rates by age as the numbers tell a very clear story . So lets say that a vaccine is 70% effective, which might well be on the low end. If the vulnerable are given the vaccine first, and that will be very easy for healthcare folks to identify and prioritize, then that knocks the mortality rate in seniors down to about the flu causes even with flu vaccines. We can still require testing especially how available it is now, require quarantines for positives, The herd immunity scenario will play out and economies can restart, schools can restart and the ancillary deaths and mental health issues are greatly reduced.

These vaccines have been in production for about two months now anticipating positive trials. Millions of doses will be available on day one of approval.


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm


Yes this virus will effectively "disappear" just as measles and polio has...or did until idiots started claiming vaccines make them ill or cause autism.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Jedi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:16 pm

Angelito wrote:
Jedi wrote:
Angelito wrote:Re: Vaccines

We haven't discovered vaccines for SARS and MERS so far.

It's been 8 years since MERS first erupted into the scene and 18 years since SARS-CoV became an endemic even though it's first cases go back to the 60s. It simply was an endemic before unlike this novel Coronavirus.

Why the fvck would anyone look for a vaccine for a Virus that's been contained in 2004. Neither virus has had more than a few thousand cases so there's absolutely no demand to create a vaccine which is a very expensive and complicated process.


My point is that there isn't a vaccine for SARS-CoV, not whether it was contained or not. There isn't. The first time the virus came into being was in the 60s. The difference is it wasn't a pandemic then as much as it was an outbreak. The vaccine wasn't discovered because scientists were unable to, not because they were unwilling to.

Not sure why you're getting itchy.

We don't have a vaccine for HIV either. But we know of the ways we can limit it's spread, or avoid catching the virus. Covid-19 is different, more complex. Just that.


Jedi wrote:
Angelito wrote:While the research for SARS-CoV-2 virus is being conducted at an unprecedented volume, discovery and safe administration of a virus is a phase that spans a decade more or less, if it's ever discovered.

The three are similar as they're all single-stranded RNA viruses.

There's hoping and there's being specific. In my estimation, Covid-19 is here to stay for the next 40-50 years. There might be a sudden boom in scientific technology that enables the discovery of a vaccine, but as it stands, it looks unlikely that Covid-19 just disappears. What makes it even more lethal is the airborne transmission, which isn't the case for MERS.

Vaccines might build our immunity against the virus. But the virus won't just disappear. That's not how viruses work.

We might have to learn to live with it. Wearing masks, washing hands, physical distancing, and using sanitizers might as well become the norm for us now.

Unless there's a groundbreaking discovery, the literature we have so far, and the nature of these RNA viruses, we are looking at a generation that will be defined as the Corona generation in forty year's time.

Gloomy as it may sound, life as we have known it, has ceased.

All of this is nonsense based on everything we've heard from leading experts in the field. Mass production of vaccines is most likely going to start very soon (early 2021) and when it does things are going to go back to normal.

Yes, the virus will remain in circulation for many years/decades to come but it's going to lose a lot of its potency and yearly vaccination for elderly and other risk groups will help curb it even more.


Bold #1 - Yes, that's what is planned, but it remains uncertain. Top experts have also said that vaccine is unlikely before the end of 2021. So, I'd be wary if someone proposed mass distribution of a vaccine that hasn't been discovered yet.

Virology and vaccination is a complex field. It's not as clear cut as spending billions in developing vaccines against it. The current lot of research is based on building immunity against the virus, not eliminating it, as I have mentioned.

Bold #2 That's the whole gist of what I just said. The Coronavirus will remain. Life, as we knew it, will and has changed. The vaccine will work in preventing mass transmission but vaccination is a complex science.

When will we have a coronavirus vaccine?

A vaccine would normally take years, if not decades, to develop. Researchers hope to achieve the same amount of work in only a few months.

Most experts think a vaccine is likely to become widely available by mid-2021, about 12-18 months after the new virus, known officially as Sars-CoV-2, first emerged.

That would be a huge scientific feat and there are no guarantees it will work.

Four coronaviruses already circulate in human beings. They cause common cold symptoms and we don't have vaccines for any of them.


However, no-one knows how effective any of these vaccines will be.


LinkBBC

So, when you claim that things are going to resume normal service once the vaccination is developed, you're on tricky territory. Your first assumption is that an absolute vaccine will come into being. I've seen no scientist be as sure as you are. Second, you think everything will return to normal once the vaccine is out, which again, is only you being certain, not virologists and pandemic experts.

So, chill the eff off.


Nobody disagrees that things are uncertain but you're the one fearmongering with statements like:
Gloomy as it may sound, life as we have known it, has ceased.


Based on the info coming in lately, this statement couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing is certain, but by far the most likely scenario is that things start going back to normal in early 2021 as we roll out the vaccine. So lets chill with the doom and gloom.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Santi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:19 pm

Jedi wrote:
Angelito wrote:Re: Vaccines

We haven't discovered vaccines for SARS and MERS so far.

It's been 8 years since MERS first erupted into the scene and 18 years since SARS-CoV became an endemic even though it's first cases go back to the 60s. It simply was an endemic before unlike this novel Coronavirus.

Why the fvck would anyone look for a vaccine for a Virus that's been contained in 2004. Neither virus has had more than a few thousand cases so there's absolutely no demand to create a vaccine which is a very expensive and complicated process.

While the research for SARS-CoV-2 virus is being conducted at an unprecedented volume, discovery and safe administration of a virus is a phase that spans a decade more or less, if it's ever discovered.

The three are similar as they're all single-stranded RNA viruses.

There's hoping and there's being specific. In my estimation, Covid-19 is here to stay for the next 40-50 years. There might be a sudden boom in scientific technology that enables the discovery of a vaccine, but as it stands, it looks unlikely that Covid-19 just disappears. What makes it even more lethal is the airborne transmission, which isn't the case for MERS.

Vaccines might build our immunity against the virus. But the virus won't just disappear. That's not how viruses work.

We might have to learn to live with it. Wearing masks, washing hands, physical distancing, and using sanitizers might as well become the norm for us now.

Unless there's a groundbreaking discovery, the literature we have so far, and the nature of these RNA viruses, we are looking at a generation that will be defined as the Corona generation in forty year's time.

Gloomy as it may sound, life as we have known it, has ceased.

All of this is nonsense based on everything we've heard from leading experts in the field. Mass production of vaccines is most likely going to start very soon (early 2021) and when it does things are going to go back to normal.

Yes, the virus will remain in circulation for many years/decades to come but it's going to lose a lot of its potency and yearly vaccination for elderly and other risk groups will help curb it even more.


And what about MERS? You think they aren't trying to find a vaccine for a virus with 37% death rate? Just because it's not all over the news and probably hasn't had as much money pumped in (due to less hysteria), doesn't mean they aren't still trying (8 years on). Imagine it ever broke out again, it would ravage countries worse than the current one.

Also scientists are constantly on the hunt for new viruses that haven't even been found yet, so they most certainly won't be ignoring the ones we already know about. The point is, no matter how much money is involved, it's clearly nigh on impossible to create a highly effective vaccine for these types of viruses, at least currently.

I have no doubt they will have a much better go of it this time around given the volumes involved, the money pumped in and the scientific advances...it may even lead to us finding future vaccines for SARS and MERS (human trial ongoing) if we're lucky but I think it's still a huge question mark.

If we do get something effective then the people who come up with it deserve all the recognition they can get in the world, knight them, give them a nobel peace prize, make them king and queen ffs.
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Sims » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 pm

as an off note from vaccines etc, does anyone else feel lets say 'better off' from these new working conditions?

im liking the way i work now given im permanently at home now. dont ever have to get the tube at rush hour, can chill at home and take a break whenever i want, not spending money on lunches in the city, more time to get tough work done & complete tasks way quicker. it's great


pubs and restauarants are still good, no queues at the bar, no c**** playing acoustic guitar in the pub on a saturday night and table service for drinks

love it lads
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Santi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:24 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:Many are missing the forest for the trees. Covid 19 as we KNOW is only deadly to a significant population that is elderly or has underlying conditions.
Look at the mortality rates by age as the numbers tell a very clear story . So lets say that a vaccine is 70% effective, which might well be on the low end. If the vulnerable are given the vaccine first, and that will be very easy for healthcare folks to identify and prioritize, then that knocks the mortality rate in seniors down to about the flu causes even with flu vaccines. We can still require testing especially how available it is now, require quarantines for positives, The herd immunity scenario will play out and economies can restart, schools can restart and the ancillary deaths and mental health issues are greatly reduced.

These vaccines have been in production for about two months now anticipating positive trials. Millions of doses will be available on day one of approval.


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... /index.htm


Yes this virus will effectively "disappear" just as measles and polio has...or did until idiots started claiming vaccines make them ill or cause autism.


TBH my point was more about it being a potential watershed moment. With all the money being pumped in to both the vaccine and the test and trace systems I think we're going to see an extra layer of 'security' with most big events in the form testing. Either you'll have to demonstrate being corona (or future virus) free before you can register for an event or you could be getting tested at the entry an turned away with a positive result.

I think the testing will scale down over time, particularly the more effective a vaccine is but can see it sticking around in some regard whether it's just for events over a certain capacity or whatever.

Hopefully not because it'll become hugely f***ing laborious like airport security is now, but hey we've all accepted that in the interest of safety by now haven't we?
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:29 pm

Given several companies have said that the vaccines are proving to be safe and effective (they would not be lying about this give the liability) and just how hard we have been told coronavirus' are to create the requisite antibodies suitable for a vaccine are my gut says that this may well open the door to all sorts of new a novel treatments and vaccines.

Five years (or less) on some malcontents will be bitching that government subsidized greedy "big pharma".
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Postby Jedi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:39 pm

Santi wrote:And what about MERS? You think they aren't trying to find a vaccine for a virus with 37% death rate? Just because it's not all over the news and probably hasn't had as much money pumped in (due to less hysteria), doesn't mean they aren't still trying (8 years on). Imagine it ever broke out again, it would ravage countries worse than the current one.

Also scientists are constantly on the hunt for new viruses that haven't even been found yet, so they most certainly won't be ignoring the ones we already know about. The point is, no matter how much money is involved, it's clearly nigh on impossible to create a highly effective vaccine for these types of viruses, at least currently.

I have no doubt they will have a much better go of it this time around given the volumes involved, the money pumped in and the scientific advances...it may even lead to us finding future vaccines for SARS and MERS (human trial ongoing) if we're lucky but I think it's still a huge question mark.

If we do get something effective then the people who come up with it deserve all the recognition they can get in the world, knight them, give them a nobel peace prize, make them king and queen ffs.

MERS can't ravage anything, precisely because of the high deathrate and much tougher symptoms. People quickly get sick and stay at home/die so the transmission rate is much, much lower. With Coronavirus, a lot of healthy people carry it and spread it insanely fast.

MERS killed a few people, but It's still not profitable to create a vaccine and that's all these companies care about.
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