Fabianski going on loan

Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Leody » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:18 pm

The way that I view keepers is like this...

How many times this season has he pulled off a save where you said "WOW, he really bailed us out there!!!"

Not many that I can recall, not nearly as many as the keepers that have played against us. (naturally we shoot more I know) I honestly struggle to recall even once where the defense was beaten and Szczesny saved their ass. I can remember the defense letting him down lots of times though. And that's why he has one of the lower save percentages in the league at under 66%. I'm not saying that he should do this regularly, but the good keepers will make unexpected saves from time to time, ours don't very often at all.

Not even considering his errors, I don't view him as an above average keeper right now. His command of the defense appears to be poor as much as they're out of position, not attacking corners or set plays, he should be getting them in position, letting them know when a runner is coming from behind and so on. That could be because he doesn't communicate well, they don't listen or they're just not that good, I don't know for sure. He doesn't attack crosses well at all, just go back and watch what Mandanda did to us every time we put a ball in if you want to see how a good keeper deals with them. And then there are the questionable shot stopping situations.

The good thing is, he's really young and has time to improve. I'm just tired of having a squad full of potential and a couple of finished articles.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Fabrestuta » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:24 pm

Agree with senor muffin top (you really need to bring back that avi Leody). Chesney is a very talented keeper but he gets faaaar too much praise. He's a good YOUNG keeper but he is so far away from the finished article that I might actually regrow hair by the time he is ready to take his place as a top keeper.

He's absolutely nowhere near as good (yet) as some gooners claim, but he's young and has all the attributes so the future is bright.......hopefully.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:26 pm

Leody wrote:The way that I view keepers is like this...

How many times this season has he pulled off a save where you said "WOW, he really bailed us out there!!!"

Not many that I can recall, not nearly as many as the keepers that have played against us. (naturally we shoot more I know) I honestly struggle to recall even once where the defense was beaten and Szczesny saved their ass. I can remember the defense letting him down lots of times though. And that's why he has one of the lower save percentages in the league at under 66%. I'm not saying that he should do this regularly, but the good keepers will make unexpected saves from time to time, ours don't very often at all.

Not even considering his errors, I don't view him as an above average keeper right now. His command of the defense appears to be poor as much as they're out of position, not attacking corners or set plays, he should be getting them in position, letting them know when a runner is coming from behind and so on. That could be because he doesn't communicate well, they don't listen or they're just not that good, I don't know for sure. He doesn't attack crosses well at all, just go back and watch what Mandanda did to us every time we put a ball in if you want to see how a good keeper deals with them. And then there are the questionable shot stopping situations.

The good thing is, he's really young and has time to improve. I'm just tired of having a squad full of potential and a couple of finished articles.


Actually, he's made plenty of fantastics saves. Like you I can't recall the teams we were playing against but I remember a lot of spectacular saves like that penalty save that granted us qualification into the CL (I believe it was against Udinese).

Anyway, I'm sure if I took the time I could find plenty.
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Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
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(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Leody » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:28 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it about a bajillion times...

Saving penalties does not impress me one iota. Penalties are not saved because of any skill on the part of the keeper, they're saved because of a lucky guess on direction and/or a poor penalty from the taker. Keepers just pick a side, dive, and hope it hits them.

I properly taken penalty is 100% unsaveable no matter the keeper.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:33 pm

Leody wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it about a bajillion times...

Saving penalties does not impress me one iota. Penalties are not saved because of any skill on the part of the keeper, they're saved because of a lucky guess on direction and/or a poor penalty from the taker. Keepers just pick a side, dive, and hope it hits them.

I properly taken penalty is 100% unsaveable no matter the keeper.


Actually, if you saw the penalty you'll understand what I mean. The penalty was well placed and had a lot of power behind it. 9 times out of 10, that ball would go in with any other keeper and Szczesny made a save that looked impoosible to keep out. Surely has to be one of the saves of the season.

I remember going absolutely crazy when that ball didn't go in.
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Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
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(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Leody » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:39 pm

That's all well and good, but like I said... a properly taken penalty is 100% unsaveable.

Just a decent amount of power, within about a foot or so of the post and more than half way up the net and any keeper in the world is helpless. Even I can put the ball there from the spot on either post about 80% of the time, with pace.

Szczesny guessed right that time, the taker left it low and gave him a chance. Helped the team, and I was probably just as excited as you when it happened, but I don't credit the keeper, I blame the taker on missed penalties.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:45 pm

Leody wrote:That's all well and good, but like I said... a properly taken penalty is 100% unsaveable.

Just a decent amount of power, within about a foot or so of the post and more than half way up the net and any keeper in the world is helpless. Even I can put the ball there from the spot on either post about 80% of the time, with pace.

Szczesny guessed right that time, the taker left it low and gave him a chance. Helped the team, and I was probably just as excited as you when it happened, but I don't credit the keeper, I blame the taker on missed penalties.


Well here are other saves if you're still not convinced. Got them from Youtube and there are some pretty good saves in there, imo (the one at Newcastle for example :drool:).

Here's 1 clip from the 2010/11 season:


Here are 2 clips from this season:

Leno
(Martinez/Macey)
Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
Xhaka(c)
(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


Last Updated: 9/19/19
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Inchpräctice » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:47 pm

SammyGunner11 wrote:
Leody wrote:The way that I view keepers is like this...

How many times this season has he pulled off a save where you said "WOW, he really bailed us out there!!!"

Not many that I can recall, not nearly as many as the keepers that have played against us. (naturally we shoot more I know) I honestly struggle to recall even once where the defense was beaten and Szczesny saved their ass. I can remember the defense letting him down lots of times though. And that's why he has one of the lower save percentages in the league at under 66%. I'm not saying that he should do this regularly, but the good keepers will make unexpected saves from time to time, ours don't very often at all.

Not even considering his errors, I don't view him as an above average keeper right now. His command of the defense appears to be poor as much as they're out of position, not attacking corners or set plays, he should be getting them in position, letting them know when a runner is coming from behind and so on. That could be because he doesn't communicate well, they don't listen or they're just not that good, I don't know for sure. He doesn't attack crosses well at all, just go back and watch what Mandanda did to us every time we put a ball in if you want to see how a good keeper deals with them. And then there are the questionable shot stopping situations.

The good thing is, he's really young and has time to improve. I'm just tired of having a squad full of potential and a couple of finished articles.


Actually, he's made plenty of fantastics saves. Like you I can't recall the teams we were playing against but I remember a lot of spectacular saves like that penalty save that granted us qualification into the CL (I believe it was against Udinese).

Anyway, I'm sure if I took the time I could find plenty.


I agree, I can remember saying to whoever was watching the games with me 'Wow another great save' loaaaaaaaaaaads of times this season, and I'm not talking about penalties.
Ok I can't give you examples right now off the top of my head but there were definitely loads of times.
I can remember games where we were 2-0 up and then gave away at least 3 clear opportunities on goal. Had they not be saved we obviously would've lost.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Fabrestuta » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:06 am

Leody wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it about a bajillion times...

Saving penalties does not impress me one iota. Penalties are not saved because of any skill on the part of the keeper, they're saved because of a lucky guess on direction and/or a poor penalty from the taker. Keepers just pick a side, dive, and hope it hits them.

I properly taken penalty is 100% unsaveable no matter the keeper.



Indeed. 99% of penalty saves are down to luck.

There are some where a keeper knows where a player is going, that is rare if it's a veteran peno taker, but in general keeper just try to cover the lower third of the goal, if they guess right they have a chance of getting a hand on a shot. Keepers are never the villain of a shootout even if they let in every one, as there is no pressure, they aren't expected to save a peno so they actually have an advantage.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Leody » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:21 am

There are ways to read the taker, yes. Watching their eyes as they approach the ball, their hips, the plant foot and so on... but reacting to the shot is impossible.

I was always taught to pick a side, dive as far as you can to cover as close to the post as you can and stay off the ground. And keep your shoulders and hips perpendicular with the ground to make yourself as wide as possible. Then hope it hits you.

And I'm sorry Sammy, YouTube highlight vids aren't going to do anything for me. You can probably find just as many quality highlights from Almunia.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby UFGN » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:27 am

I hope this doesnt happen. It seems totally pointless anyway. fab will be 2nd choice for Poland regardless.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Zedie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:34 am

Leody wrote:There are ways to read the taker, yes. Watching their eyes as they approach the ball, their hips, the plant foot and so on... but reacting to the shot is impossible.

I was always taught to pick a side, dive as far as you can to cover as close to the post as you can and stay off the ground. And keep your shoulders and hips perpendicular with the ground to make yourself as wide as possible. Then hope it hits you.

And I'm sorry Sammy, YouTube highlight vids aren't going to do anything for me. You can probably find just as many quality highlights from Almunia.



You willing to put money on that?! :biggrin:

Defo agree with your theory on penalties. The only time ill give a keeper his props, is if he actually did his homework beforehand or puts off the striker to cause an error, because thats been dictated by them.

Its impossible to safe a well struck shot from the spot to either post unless your a huge keeper with cat like reflexes and you guessed the right way.

Penalty shootouts are one big poker match.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Inchpräctice » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:04 am

I think if those YouTube videos prove anything (especially the first) it's that a) he certainly can save long distance shots and b) there were a hell of a lot of match-winning saves that you'd forgotten about Leody.

Some of those were awesome, especially the bullet headers from 5 yards out.
Sorry but I just can't remember our other GKs making as many winning saves as that.
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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:09 am

Leody wrote:There are ways to read the taker, yes. Watching their eyes as they approach the ball, their hips, the plant foot and so on... but reacting to the shot is impossible.

I was always taught to pick a side, dive as far as you can to cover as close to the post as you can and stay off the ground. And keep your shoulders and hips perpendicular with the ground to make yourself as wide as possible. Then hope it hits you.

And I'm sorry Sammy, YouTube highlight vids aren't going to do anything for me. You can probably find just as many quality highlights from Almunia.


I agree Almunia has made some good saves before, but his failures speaks volumes. So much so that, I would laugh at him everytime I saw him if I supported another club.
Leno
(Martinez/Macey)
Bellerin Saliba Sokratis Tierney
(Niles/Osei-Tutu) (Mustafi/Dinos) (Holding/Medley) (Kolasinac/Bola)
Xhaka(c)
(Luiz?/Chambers)
Guendouzi --- Ceballos
(Torreira/Elneny) --- (Ozil/Willock)
Pepe -------------------- Auba
(ESR/Mkhi) -------------------- (Nelson/Saka)
Lacazette
(Martinelli/Nketiah)


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Re: Fabianski going on loan

Postby Zedie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:15 am

Even the spuds can laugh now that they've benched Gomez and got friedel. It was a sad day when that happened.
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