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Re: UFC

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:38 pm

I think Whittaker knocks Stylebender out.
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Re: UFC

Postby alexafc12 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 pm

StLGooner wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:What I didn't like is that he knew it was stopped early, which isn't his fault of course, but then didn't want to give Lawler a rematch. Yea, he doesn't have to give him one, and it's not up to him, but it just makes him less of a man in my book that he didn't even entertain the idea. He knows Robbie would probably win the rematch, that's why.


Exactly.

That's just low, yes obviously take the result, it was the refs fault, but don't play up to it with that stupid smile on his face shrugging his shoulders and making out to Rogan like it was legit.

That's a disgraceful attitude to have as a competitor.


Lawler wasn’t going anywhere with that choke and whether or not he went out for a second or not no one knows.

Askren is 34 with 2 (at the time) fights left on his deal. He’s not going to benefit from rematching Lawler in his pursuit for the title.

Masvidal fight was the right choice. Now he can think about a rematch - makes sense depending on outcome of Cody fight - otherwise Leon Edwards or RDA is a decent match up for him


In hindsight it wasn't the right choice.

But sometimes the right thing to do, is better than the smart career choice. It would have at least earned him more respect. Now he's coming off a loss and a fight that he probably should have lost. It would have looked better if he gave Lawler a rematch and won, but he probably knows he wasn't going to.


It 100% was the right choice ...

Masvidal was realistically the one fighter ranked ahead of him he could face and, if had beat him would have 90% given him the Usman fight for the title.

I suspect the long term plan in his mind would have been Masvidal > Usman > Coby/Lawler winner.

His fight deal isn’t long enough to be all sentimental - no guarantee he’ll get offered a new package either. His selling point was he was always the unknown quantity and people wanted to see how good he really is.

Next fight for him is huge.
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Re: UFC

Postby alexafc12 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:32 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:I think Whittaker knocks Stylebender out.


He looked suspect against Silva tbh so wouldn’t be surprised. Looking forward to to fight
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Re: UFC

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:49 pm

alexafc12 wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
StLGooner wrote:What I didn't like is that he knew it was stopped early, which isn't his fault of course, but then didn't want to give Lawler a rematch. Yea, he doesn't have to give him one, and it's not up to him, but it just makes him less of a man in my book that he didn't even entertain the idea. He knows Robbie would probably win the rematch, that's why.


Exactly.

That's just low, yes obviously take the result, it was the refs fault, but don't play up to it with that stupid smile on his face shrugging his shoulders and making out to Rogan like it was legit.

That's a disgraceful attitude to have as a competitor.


Lawler wasn’t going anywhere with that choke and whether or not he went out for a second or not no one knows.

Askren is 34 with 2 (at the time) fights left on his deal. He’s not going to benefit from rematching Lawler in his pursuit for the title.

Masvidal fight was the right choice. Now he can think about a rematch - makes sense depending on outcome of Cody fight - otherwise Leon Edwards or RDA is a decent match up for him


In hindsight it wasn't the right choice.

But sometimes the right thing to do, is better than the smart career choice. It would have at least earned him more respect. Now he's coming off a loss and a fight that he probably should have lost. It would have looked better if he gave Lawler a rematch and won, but he probably knows he wasn't going to.


It 100% was the right choice ...

Masvidal was realistically the one fighter ranked ahead of him he could face and, if had beat him would have 90% given him the Usman fight for the title.

I suspect the long term plan in his mind would have been Masvidal > Usman > Coby/Lawler winner.

His fight deal isn’t long enough to be all sentimental - no guarantee he’ll get offered a new package either. His selling point was he was always the unknown quantity and people wanted to see how good he really is.

Next fight for him is huge.


I'm going to have to disagree. It was a bad choice. Just because you fight the next guy in line or a higher ranked person doesn't mean shit really. The match makers are still going to pick a fight based off what they think will sell, they don't care about who's ranked what in most cases. Take Cerrone for example. He fights whoever and whenever, and as often as he can. He gets more fights than anyone else because he's a man and doesn't back down from anyone, he doesn't care who is next in line or who is the next ranked opponent and it has actually benefited him. When you show Dana that you won't duck anyone and that you'll fight anyone any time, then Dana respects and pays that gratitude back to you in most cases. Even if he would have won, I still think the rematch (if given the chance of course) would have been better for him and his career moving forward. Now not only does he have a devastating loss, but he also has the reputation of punk. That won't go far with Dana, just watch, you'll see. Yes, you have to make wise career choices, but you also have to please and entertain the boss.
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Re: UFC

Postby alexafc12 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:28 pm

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Tony Ferguson is a prime example of how many fighters often get overlooked for title shots. Hell Cowboy has been with UFC for what can’t be far of 10 years and I can recall 1 title fight against RDA.

If you have a clear path to the title you need to take it. Askren doesn’t have time to sit around offering rematches on a 3 fight contract which has no guarantee to be extended. Masvidal was the biggest fight he could get, Robbie is great but it’s much harder to sell a fight with a guy who doesn’t do any build up. Believe me the Masvidal fight drew more attention than a rematch with Robbier would have.

The only thing Dana cares about is the biggest sell. Tony Ferguson is your prime example of that.
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Re: UFC

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:43 pm

Tbf Tony was scheduled to fight Khabib last April but then had that freak accident.

Most recently he turned down the interim fight against Max which Dustin won, had he taken that he'd be fighting Khabib for the title in September.

Tony is a different breed though, can't wait until he dethrones Khabib.
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Re: UFC

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:58 am

alexafc12 wrote:We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Tony Ferguson is a prime example of how many fighters often get overlooked for title shots. Hell Cowboy has been with UFC for what can’t be far of 10 years and I can recall 1 title fight against RDA.

If you have a clear path to the title you need to take it. Askren doesn’t have time to sit around offering rematches on a 3 fight contract which has no guarantee to be extended. Masvidal was the biggest fight he could get, Robbie is great but it’s much harder to sell a fight with a guy who doesn’t do any build up. Believe me the Masvidal fight drew more attention than a rematch with Robbier would have.

The only thing Dana cares about is the biggest sell. Tony Ferguson is your prime example of that.



I think some of that kind of helps my point. Rankings don't really mean too much, otherwise the #2 would always fight the champion, and obviously that isn't the case. You have to be an entertainer. Look at Connor's quick rise, he sold his own fights. You either go in there as a total beast of a man willing to fight anyone, or you have elite exceptional talent, or you talk your way to title fights. This is the entertainment business at the end of the day. You don't get anywhere fast by ducking fights or acting like a bitch. Yes Dana cares about match ups and money, but he says it all the time, you have to entertain, and he loves fighters that don't back down from anyone. He loves that mentality, which is he gives Cowboy so many fights, which could have helped Askren in the log run. Yea, short term thinking that may have been the better choice, but does he want to get invited back after his contract is up or not? Now he's another loss away probably from joining another promotion. But when you show that you have killer attitude and mentality, and not just in a rush to get to the title fight, that goes a long way with Dana, I'm telling you. Dana can make sure you fight in the UFC for a very long time, or he can shut the lights out on you in a second. It's not just about winning fights and taking the best one available all the time.
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Re: UFC

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:55 pm

Dana gives Cowboy so many fights because Cowboy wants to fight as frequently as he can.

It's not a reward from Dana or anything, Cowboy will just fight anyone at any time so Dana obliges.
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Re: UFC

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:22 pm

Do you think Dana would allow just everyone to fight as much as they want? Obviously not. So he "rewards" Cowboy with as many fights as he wants, cause he knows Cowboy isn't a bitch like Askren. Cowboy is a good fighter but he has many flaws and just lacks some athleticism that some of the other athletes have over him. I'm sure many fighters want to fight a lot, as that equals more money and we all know not all of these fighters make great money. Some fighters still live at the gyms they work out at, or in someone elses house. You gotta make a name for yourself, and what I have explained is one way to do it. Askren isn't going to shock the world with his incredible skills, he's just a wrestler really. So he has to find another way to make a name for himself while developing the rest of his skills, and he has to impress Dana and earn some respect so he gets more fights.
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Re: UFC

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:52 pm

Askren is one of the best wrestlers of all time, he is already incredibly skilled - far more skilled than Cowboy.

He's just a super specialist, he doesn't have anything besides grappling.
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Re: UFC

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:00 pm

That doesn't really do anything for the point I'm making, but I wouldn't called that incredibly skilled then, not as far as MMA goes. It's called "Mixed" Martial Arts, not "One single skill Arts".
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Re: UFC

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:10 pm

You said "Askren isn't going to shock the world with his incredible skills", I'm just saying he is incredibly skilled.

Grappling isn't appreciated by most people but my point still stands.

If you're amazingly skilled in one area you can have success in mma, just look at Khabib.
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Re: UFC

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Semantics really. You're just saying he's really skilled cause he has one good skill. But you know damn well that it's better to have all around skills in MMA than just one good one, quit playing stupid bro.

I know, and Khabib is boring as f**k. Once he loses a couple of times and he will, Dana won't give a f**k about him as much cause he isn't as well rounded as others. Unless he does something else to impress Dana. That's my whole point, it's not just about fighting the next ranked opponent.
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Re: UFC

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm

Khabib isn't boring.

He mauls trained killers and there's nothing they can do about it, he makes grown men look like toddlers.

Dana doesn't care if fighters are well rounded, he cares if they're a draw or not.

Tony is the most violent and entertaining fighter in the sport and Dana still doesn't like him.
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Re: UFC

Postby StLGooner » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:43 pm

I find Khabib highly boring personally. Doesn't mean he isn't really good. Nor do I think Tony is the most entertaining, but that's just personal opinions.

We're assuming Dana doesn't like him, but if he doesn't it's probably because he's a weirdo, or some other personal thing, it ain't because he's well rounded. Ha!

He cares about entertainment, that's what sells. So either you're well rounded, make a bunch of noise with your mouth, or stand out somehow. Of course he loves well rounded fighters, but I never said that was the end all or be all, I clearly gave some examples of how you have to make a name for yourself. And that is the whole point again about Askren. He tried to play the shit talker and it didn't really work, would have helped being more well rounded though, or maybe being a man asking for a rematch against Robby.
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