Goonersworld

Mesüt wrote:Woods, Bolt and Schumacher - all 3 absolutely dominated their sports more than anyone ever thought imaginable. Bolt particularly doing the unprecedented and Woods made golf even a remotely popular sport again.

Many up there that could be in for a shout like Phelps but some shouldn't even be close - Zidane f.e.


Bryant - top player but LeBron also up there, both 2 of the best to ever play but when you can hardly separate them then neither can be the greatest. Rules out Tim Duncan too.
Federer - love the man but same as above, you've got Nadal and whilst Federer was largely unparalleled for most of his career, especially in terms of style, I think the likes of Nadal and Djokovic are close and rule him out from being the greatest outside of tennis.

Was tempted:
Messi/Ron - same story, both absolutely ridiculous players and I'm sure Messi will get his fair share of votes. Hard not to consider them tbh. Zidane, Dinho ruled out.
Brady/Manning - Brady is the GOAT NFL player for sure, there's no debate between Manning, Rodgers and Brady imo he has smashed all competition. Another to be considered but ultimately fall short.
Money Mayweather - up there for being unrivaled in his sport, except by another man on the list..little Manny. Both out.


Another suggestion for the list would be Phil Taylor - dunno what you wana class as 'athlete' but he's another who dominated his sport for almost 20 years. Could've thrown a couple NZ rugby players into the mix as well- Carter, Lomu.

Lomu was in the 90s but Carter a good shout

As is Taylor.

f**k, how'd I forget Rocket Ronnie? What he does is with that cueball is magical.

Went with Federer, Bolt and Mayweather.

Federer is the most graceful and aesthetically pleasing athlete of all time.

Bolt is the greatest ever Olympian. In a sport usually decided by inches he dominated by metres.

Boxing is probably the most difficult sport of all and Mayweather mastered it.

For sports I've watched (athlete couldn't have competed more than 3 seasons in the 90s, or things got too complicated, so athletes like Serena and Tiger aren't on my list):

Usain Bolt
-No explanation necessary.
Katie Ledecky
-Yup, over Phelps. What she's done is absurd. Her absolute dominance in swimming is like the equivalent of being the fastest runner in the world in the 200m, 800m, 1500m, and 5000m. It shouldn't be possible.
Shaun White
-Completely dominated snowboarding and had a good stint in skateboarding.

Federer would have been fourth on my list.

I didn't include Tom Brady because American football is so much of a team sport, and Brady has had great defenses for basically his entire career. Give Drew Brees (who is criminally underrated even though he'll be a first-ballot Hall of Famer) those Patriot defenses, and he has at least 6 rings right now. However, I'm not diminishing anything Brady has accomplished. Peyton Manning, LaDainian Tomlinson, Randy Moss, and Charles Woodson could also be considered as the greatest athlete in the NFL for the 21st century.

I almost included Messi since he revolutionized the game as a false 9. Sure, being a false 9 was done before him, but he elevated the role to heights never seen before, and may never been seen again. CR7 is also one of the all-time greats, but he didn't revolutionize football the way Messi did.

For basketball, LeBron, Kobe, and Tim Duncan are all legends, but I couldn't justify putting any of them in the top three the way I could MJ if we were talking about the 20th century.

Albert Pujols and Roy Halladay are two of the greatest baseball players of the 21st century, but they're not great in the sense of being able to stake a claim as one of the greatest athletes of the 21st century.

A lot of names already been mentioned, I'd like to throw Jacques Kallis into the mix. 3rd highest test run scorer of all time and has the 2nd highest average out of the top 12, while being an all rounder and taking nearly 300 wickets in test alone (nearly 600 including odi)

Unprecedented

I know Schumacher is not the only sportsman who relied on his team but to me, Formula 1 is not like other team sports. Main factor for success is engineering. I can't include him in a list like this.

Duncan > LeBron >>> Kobe imo. I wouldn't include Duncan though. Small difference with LeBron. Just wanted to mention him because if Kobe is in that list, Duncan should be in too. Isinbayeva is another who could have been in.

Voted Messi and Bolt.

I had Duncan on the original list but took him out. On merit he should be there, but I figured most people on this forum won't know who he is.

I trimmed the list because I had a lot of athletes people wouldn't be familiar with/vote for and it just looked messy.

My bad if the final vote tally isn't divisible by three since I had two athletes for other (Katie Ledecky and Shaun White), but I could only vote for that option once.

Seems like Bolt is near-consensus, though.

I think it's time this discussion can be had.

Who is the greater knockout stage player: LeBron James (NBA Playoffs) or Cristiano Ronaldo (UEFA Champions League)?

Ronaldo

Have never seen the other guy

Ronaldo.

The only criticism of LeBron is his Finals record.

It's also more difficult to impact a football match than a basketball game.

And finally everyone knows the Eastern conference is weak af. If LeBron had to contend with the Western teams he wouldn't always make the Finals.

It's super close for me, but I have to give the slight nod to 'Bron.

Playoffs
28.6 ppg | 8.9 rpg | 6.9 apg (I realize it's arbitray, but he's the only player to average at least 28/8/6)
All-time leader in career playoff steals (397), just passed Pippen (394) today
Highest ppg in elimination games (33.5)
Only player to average a triple double in a finals
Only player in top 10 in points, rebounds, assists, and steals
Most career points in NBA playoff history

Game 7s
34.9 ppg | 9.3 rpg | 5.1 apg
Including Jordan, there's no player I'd take over LeBron in a game 7.

Vava, I agree that it's easier to impact a basketball game than a football match since it's 5 vs. 11, but you're underselling LBJ imo. Look at Cleveland when he first left and Miami when he returned to Cleveland: both teams went from perennial contenders to not even making the playoffs. Even though he wouldn't have made 7 consecutive finals in the West (he'd be lucky to have made 3 finals in that period if the Cavs/Heat were theoretically in the West tbh), he turns teams from garbage/mediocre tier to instant contenders. I'm not saying he did it all himself because Wade, Bosh, Allen, Kyrie, and Love are/were elite, but he elevated those teams to a level they wouldn't have been able to reach without him.

Ronaldo has had vastly superior teams than LeBron has. LeBron's most talented teams were the 2012-13 Heat and the 2015-16 Cavs; excluding Sporting, Ronaldo's teams have always been on at least that level. To this day, even though he got swept by the Spurs, I maintain LeBron's greatest playoff run was in 2007 when he channeled his inner 2001 AI, put the Cavs on his back, and drug them to the finals. CR7's performance last season comes extremely close, though.

However, I'm not taking anything away from Ronaldo because he's been untouchable in the CL.

Again, an argument can be made for both, but I give the nod to LeBron based on the fact that he's had less to work with than Ronaldo.

You'd take LeBron over Jordan for a game 7 because Jordan never needed to go to a game 7.

Won all his rings in 6 games or less.

take it the cavs won game 7 then?

Why can't i vote for Bolt 3 times?

In all seriousness i went

I'm Jamaican, what the hell do you expect????????
Federer
Schumacher

Each of them alongside Woods, Serena are either number 1 or 2 in the best ever in their sport.

Messi and Cristiano have had an easy generation to shine in.

Phelps is great an all but who really cares that much about swimming and they have like 15 events each olympics compared to others but then again i love F1 so i'm a bit biased to include Schumacher.

That reminds me Lewis Hamilton has a good shot at being the greatest sportsman this decade.