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PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

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PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Plymouth Gooner » Sat May 19, 2012 7:27 am

Est83 wrote:I like the fact that we're self-sufficient. We're a rarity in the Prem, a bunch of f**king odd-balls just because we operate at a profit... any other league and we would be commended!!!

The debt/s is/are soon to be cleared, we can judge the board/manager after that. The shackles will be off!


Just like some teams once liked the fact they didn 't have a foreign manager or had mostly British players. Times change and if you don't move with them you get left behind!

Wenger thought that the self sufficient model was the future because of the FFP rules coming in. City sponsoring themselves has shown that he was wrong.

We need to move with the times and find big money investors IMO.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Sat May 19, 2012 7:46 am

Plymouth Gooner wrote:
Est83 wrote:I like the fact that we're self-sufficient. We're a rarity in the Prem, a bunch of f**king odd-balls just because we operate at a profit... any other league and we would be commended!!!

The debt/s is/are soon to be cleared, we can judge the board/manager after that. The shackles will be off!


Just like some teams once liked the fact they didn 't have a foreign manager or had mostly British players. Times change and if you don't move with them you get left behind!

Wenger thought that the self sufficient model was the future because of the FFP rules coming in. City sponsoring themselves has shown that he was wrong.

We need to move with the times and find big money investors IMO.


Even if the FFP rules are strictly enforced people will still find loopholes and exploit them. Its laughable when Wenger tries to sell this BS that with FFP we will suddenly become competitive and Chelsea/Man City will suddenly stop investing while its even more laughable when some people still buy his BS. F1's FOTA is on the verge of collapse cos F1 management is finding it extremely hard to enforce the cost restrictions. Enforcing FFP is no child's play and people need to come out of their pipe dream if they think FFP is their savior.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby FrustratedGooner » Sat May 19, 2012 9:41 am

who ever dont want him must be so happy with the way everything has been since stan took over. I mean it I dont like stan and want him out. I want Usmanov as he will show ambition or he claims he will and he will change the setup of the club. We are an Football Club not a Business. He would come in and pay 90mill to our debt thats proberly like his pocket money he gives to his cleaner or what ever.....And with wenger he will not go insane in the market he will just add the quality he needs. Give wenger 1 season with the cash if nothing changes bye bye wenger thank you for everything.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Hammered Pizza » Sat May 19, 2012 12:28 pm

Don't want Usmanov to have anything to do with the club.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby EvAMY-CRAIGLEEAFC » Sat May 19, 2012 1:34 pm

No matter what nothing will change. We will not pay massive transfer fees and we will not break our wage structure. Which to a degree i agree with.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Leody » Sat May 19, 2012 1:42 pm

Est83 wrote:I like the fact that we're self-sufficient. We're a rarity in the Prem, a bunch of f**king odd-balls just because we operate at a profit... any other league and we would be commended!!!

The debt/s is/are soon to be cleared, we can judge the board/manager after that. The shackles will be off!


They'll find another excuse to "shackle" themselves. The debt isn't as big a problem as they make it out to be. A couple of years ago they over paid on it by something around £100m, what if they had used a bit of that on improving the squad?

Without going into too much financial jargon, when you pay of debt early to save let's say 8% interest (made up number) you're saying to the world, I'm not able to find anything that I could do with this money to improve my business and get better than an 8% return. IMO, that's a very poor indication of the quality of business man that's running Arsenal.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby GunnGunn » Sat May 19, 2012 2:18 pm

EvAMY-CRAIGLEEAFC wrote:No matter what nothing will change. We will not pay massive transfer fees and we will not break our wage structure. Which to a degree i agree with.


I don't think i have ever heard one Arsenal fan ever say that we need to spend massive transfer fees.

We do need quality players however, what people don't seem to realise is that those players don't have to cost £50m, they cost £15-£20m.

Our wage structure is socialistic and terribly inforced, its a noose around the clubs neck and the sooner it goes the better. I don't want Usmanov at the club but at some point something has gotta give so we can see some change.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby gzagee » Sat May 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Leody wrote:
Est83 wrote:I like the fact that we're self-sufficient. We're a rarity in the Prem, a bunch of f**king odd-balls just because we operate at a profit... any other league and we would be commended!!!

The debt/s is/are soon to be cleared, we can judge the board/manager after that. The shackles will be off!


They'll find another excuse to "shackle" themselves. The debt isn't as big a problem as they make it out to be. A couple of years ago they over paid on it by something around £100m, what if they had used a bit of that on improving the squad?

Without going into too much financial jargon, when you pay of debt early to save let's say 8% interest (made up number) you're saying to the world, I'm not able to find anything that I could do with this money to improve my business and get better than an 8% return. IMO, that's a very poor indication of the quality of business man that's running Arsenal.


Nothing wrong with paying off debt early. This flawed philosophy of managing debt is what has got the world into the situation it now finds itself in. You fool yourself into thinking you can handle the debt if you increased your spend "by a teeeeny bit more" then eventually you end up with your house taken away from you.

However, I agree we can afford to spend an allocation of transfer funds received but, many folk here won't be satisfied until we break the bank on the likes of Cavani, Gotze, Falcao, etc etc, spending big money on 5 areas of need. They forget these players come with hefty wage bills and if you think it can be done on £100m I suggest you think again.
Remember, to do away with the current sh*tty wage structure cannot be done overnight.
Wenger either needs to admit paying yound uproven players is flawed or someone has to have the balls to tell him that. I think that man is David Dein.
But again it was Wenger who said there's no way we can spend £30-40m+ on players and expect they will be happy with the wages we offer (the only exception being Mata). That's common sense to me.

Gunn says he doesn't want Usmanov, I say we don't need his money, but if he can put pressure on the current regime to rethink how we structure income & expenditure then that wouldn't be a bad thing.
If we have £60-80m available for transfer fees and wages then we should be able to work with that. It won't get us the creme de la creme player some folk here demand we have but, it will get us a few very good buys to fit within the wage structure we have in place.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Zedie » Sat May 19, 2012 4:27 pm

Leody wrote:
Est83 wrote:I like the fact that we're self-sufficient. We're a rarity in the Prem, a bunch of f**king odd-balls just because we operate at a profit... any other league and we would be commended!!!

The debt/s is/are soon to be cleared, we can judge the board/manager after that. The shackles will be off!


They'll find another excuse to "shackle" themselves. The debt isn't as big a problem as they make it out to be. A couple of years ago they over paid on it by something around £100m, what if they had used a bit of that on improving the squad?

Without going into too much financial jargon, when you pay of debt early to save let's say 8% interest (made up number) you're saying to the world, I'm not able to find anything that I could do with this money to improve my business and get better than an 8% return. IMO, that's a very poor indication of the quality of business man that's running Arsenal.



It says to me that the company is risk averse and doesn't want to spunk all the reserves on 3-4 players at £20m each, leaving £40-20m for any eventualities. Yes they could easily spend more money, but That needs to be signed off by board, not wenger.

Gunn - Im actually surprised you don't want usmanov? He's a billionaire that's willing to give you what your asking for constantly and he won't give a shit about spending it? Or are you hoping that stab is going to change he's thought process overnight?

I really don't get how you can continue to blame wenger for not spending money when it not him that signs off?
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Leody » Sat May 19, 2012 4:27 pm

I didn't say there was anything wrong with paying early, just that there are better options that a good business man will take advantage of. If you can't use your capital to make a better return than your interest rate, than why did you take the loan in the first place?

And don't equate the personal finance collapse to business debt, it's not the same thing. The world financial situation was started by governments forcing banks to make sub prime loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back, then lumping them together and now dumping all the blame on the banks when they're probably more responsible for the problem anyhow.

What bank wouldn't make a loan when the government will just give them the money to do it. When otherwise they would never take the risk.

You watch, the next collapse is coming in student loan finance. Only difference is there's no property for the banks to repo.
Last edited by Leody on Sat May 19, 2012 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby gzagee » Sat May 19, 2012 4:30 pm

We took out a loan and built a stadium if memory serves. That smack of not using the loan to you?
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Zedie » Sat May 19, 2012 4:52 pm

Indeed. Agree with a lot of what you posted Gza. There are a lot of cries for us to spend money, but realistically, how far is £100m total going to go in today's market. The players you mentioned are all probably min £40m each.

Wage bill wise, we have a very realistic chance of getting rid of:

Chamakh. 60k pw
Arsh. 80k pw
Almunia 50k pw
Fabianski 50k pw
Squillaci 50k pw
Park. 40k pw

Call it 300k off the wage bill.

Add in Podolski at say 70k pw

We now at 270k

What 3 players would you sign that you could offer attractive wages to and buy collectively with 60m? Assuming your bosses dont want to be left with a measly 40m to cover themselves with?

It's a lot hard than just saying spend some f***ing money. Yaya toure is on 200k pw as it is, adebayor on more, nasri just under that, kolo into the hundreds clichy the same.

Who would you pick if you were falcao? The guy that pays the most wages...
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Zenith » Sat May 19, 2012 5:04 pm

↑ 230 you mean? :think:
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Zedie » Sat May 19, 2012 5:04 pm

Regarding the sub primes Leo, the banks were still complicit in the collapse. There is no way you can tell me that the banks didn't know the potential ramifications to the terms they were throwing at people and the risk they were exposing themselves to.

If they really wanted to reject people, they could do what their doing now by just finding reasons to reject applications instead of embracing the ever increasing repayment projections from people that were gambling on a turn in fortunes themselves to make the theoretical, reality.
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Re: PLUS Markets closing, could be good for Usmanov...

Postby Zedie » Sat May 19, 2012 5:05 pm

Zenith wrote:↑ 230 you mean? :think:


Shut up :hiding: :lol:
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