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Atheist or Theist?

In Tribute to Drama. RIP
Grab a chair, open a beer & chat away

Atheist or Theist?

Atheist - Do not believe in any particular deity (God)
22
58%
Theist - Does believe in at least 1 deity (God)
12
32%
Just don't care
2
5%
Undecided or Unsure
2
5%
 
Total votes : 38

Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 9:27 pm

TRA Dial Square wrote:No I don't. Nowhere does it say I have to prove anything.

IF Anything, you asking me for proof of something you think is incorrect, means you should be counter-providing ;)


Yeah, you do. You say that there is a "higher power", you have to prove that.
What can I counter prove? You haven't provided me evidence of any higher power, so there is nothing to disprove.

Look at it this way, let's say I owe you $100. I give you a locked box and tell you it has $100 in it, and I'll only give you the key when you say that this pays off the debt. Do you take my word for it with no proof, or do you say bullshit, give me some evidence that there's $100 in this box?
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 9:30 pm

elkanofan wrote:I'm neither theist

or science loving, evolution believing atheist.

Too many lies from science and religion! The debate is, who is worse?

Theist religions manipulating millions spiritually?

Or atheistic science, marxisim and western powers manipulating people with lies?

anyone noticed how Marxist evolution theory is.


That has nothing to do with the accuracy of the science, and everything to do with the people manipulating it to suit them.
Just because a scientific idea has been used in an undesirable way does not mean the science itself is untrustworthy. Be sceptical of the government, of those in power, not science.
Also, Marxism is counter-evolutionary, it says we should all be equal, and evolution relies on exactly the opposite principle.
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby TRA Dial Square » Sun May 13, 2012 9:30 pm

I say I believe there is - You say you believe there isn't.

I've already said neither of us can prove either way. Are you just desperate to continue the discussion? :lol:
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby elkanofan » Sun May 13, 2012 9:30 pm

mg86 wrote:Going a step further than a deist and claiming to know what this god thinks about what you eat, say, think, how you have sex, pray etc is insane and any such person should be laughed at and dismissed in my book.


Yes, however because of some nutcases who just manipulate people for power and money, you shouldn't dismiss all religious texts, they are all highly interesting and feature a lot of things which reflect the world heavily today.

Pay not attention to the rules laid down in religious texts, but the metaphors which resonate today. It’s not about if Jesus or Mohammed peace be upon him where around 2000 or so years ago, what is written and the lessons inside the holy books which are important.

In the same way we must question all scientific evidence, no matter how conclusive the facts are. Who did the research to find this, where there others, who funded this research and can we trust those people who did.

If a scientist comes with evidence to show that indigenous African people are less intelligent that Western Caucasian people, shows hard fact and evidence, do we not look at who this man is, can we trust him and most importantly who funded him and what are their intentions?

Don't just blindly trust people always question everything you see. We can all see this western society especially but many cultures around the whole are totally f***ked up! Never be afraid to question why!
Last edited by elkanofan on Sun May 13, 2012 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 9:31 pm

TRA Dial Square wrote:I say I believe there is - You say you believe there isn't.

I've already said neither of us can prove either way. Are you just desperate to continue the discussion? :lol:


I don't get how you don't see that the person making the positive claim has to provide the evidence.

I'm saying right now that I'm god, do you believe me?
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby TRA Dial Square » Sun May 13, 2012 9:34 pm

I think you're just trolling now. Because I clearly asked if you could prove there isn't. Following that with "No more than I can".
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Atheist or Theist?

Postby Plymouth Gooner » Sun May 13, 2012 9:39 pm

Listen to science and religion. It doesn't have to be one or the other. There are elements of both that could be true. I say listen to all religions and all scientific theories and then make up your own mind based on what they say.

You don't have to pick one, you could even believe various bits from different religions yet still believe in the big bang or other scientific theories.

Nothing is 100% certain so keep an open mind and be open to changing your beliefs as you learn more!
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 9:43 pm

TRA Dial Square wrote:I think you're just trolling now. Because I clearly asked if you could prove there isn't. Following that with "No more than I can".


I'm not trolling, I'm trying to make you understand my point.

I'm not saying there absolutely isn't, I'm saying that I think it's bad to believe in something if there isn't at least the tiniest shred of evidence supporting it. Otherwise, why not believe in anything?
Pots of gold at the end of the rainbow, unicorns, fairies etc... why not believe in them? You can't disprove them.
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby TRA Dial Square » Sun May 13, 2012 10:16 pm

I do believe in them?
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 10:19 pm

TRA Dial Square wrote:I do believe in them?


Ok, you can't disprove that I'm god, so do you believe that too?
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby Fabrestuta » Sun May 13, 2012 10:39 pm

As PG wisely pointed out about the big bang. There isn't any proof it actually happened, physicists just put 2 and 2 together and got 4, but NO ONE can actually prove it, and many physicists now doubt the big bang theory.. You say you are not saying there categorically is no higher power Bear and in the next sentence saying that no one should actually believe there is.

Do you believe in the big bang? do you believe in black holes (no one has ever actually seen one first hand) and on a different note do you believe in aliens? or the possibility that there is alien races?

Please do not tell people what they should or should not believe in. It makes you look like an ignorant bigot.
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 11:10 pm

Read my posts again. Not once did I tell anyone to believe anything. I was asking what TRA believed (for the record, that is that there is definitely a "higher power" out there) and then questioning why he believed it, so don't call me an ignorant bigot based on something I didn't do.

The point I was putting forward is that just because you can believe in something doesn't mean you should. If you believe one thing without evidence, then why not anything? What's the difference between the two?

The black hole and big bang examples are poor ones, there is observable evidence for both of these things. Just because you don't see something with your own eyes doesn't mean it's not observable. No one ever saw living dinosaurs with their own eyes, but we know they existed because of their fossils.

I believe there may be aliens based on the sheer number of other planets that exist in the universe that are within the habitable zones of a star's orbit. It is reasonably common for planets to orbit a star, and it is known that planets within the habitable zone can support life (based on the conditions of Earth). There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy, and an estimated 125 billion galaxies (so 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars total). Even if a tiny fraction of those stars had a planet orbiting it in the habitable zone, it would still be probable that life exists on one of them.
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby Fabrestuta » Sun May 13, 2012 11:18 pm

No, there is no observable evidence that the big bang ever happened, sorry to burst you bubble, hard to amass observable data for something that is supposed to have happened 14 billion years ago. And even if there was a big bang, what was there before that? Energy can neither be created or destroyed, so what created the big bang? As for black holes, all data has been amassed on what happens around what they assume are black holes, my point was NO ONE has ever seen one.
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby ThereIsBearCum » Sun May 13, 2012 11:23 pm

There are loads of peer reviewed scientific papers that disagree with you there. Gee, who am I going to believe? Briefly, the expansion of the universe is evidence that supports the big bang.
I don't know what happened before it, no one does. That doesn't make it untrue, we just haven't figured out its origins yet.

Have you ever seen air?
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Re: Atheist or Theist?

Postby Fabrestuta » Sun May 13, 2012 11:32 pm

Oh really, there is also many many scientific papers that say the big bang didn't happen. I see you also ignored the part about energy meither being created nor destroyed, which begs to ask what happened before the big bang funny that. It just happens to be one of the main principals of physics. Google it if you do not know, quite a famous man.

I am NOT saying the big bang isn't true, I am saying you are blindly saying it is with absolutely NO evidence to back it up. Much of the science of the universe is educated guesses, but still guesses.
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